6 ms·

Don't you see? This is what I'm talking about. What does China have to do with you? How does ICE affect your day to day? Sure there are bad things in the wo

by eric_b 7y ago

Don't you see? This is what I'm talking about. What does China have to do with you? How does ICE affect your day to day? Sure there are bad things in the world, but unless you're willing to spend your time and resources fighting them, getting involved at a meaningful level, you are better off focusing on other things. Things you can control.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago
"How does ICE affect your day to day?" I'm a child of immigrants and am in n immigrant family! ICE is terrifying whenever we travel, whenever my family tries to advocate that they deserve to stay with each other, etc. I worry every day if I can raise my two younger siblings by myself should my parents ever be deported!
- sergiotapia 7y ago
  Are your parents in the US illegally?
- sojmq 7y ago
  Nobody "deserves" to stay in another country unless they are there legally.
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    Legal USA residents and citizens have been detained for months by ICE, JSYK. Believing your legal status protects you from having your rights stripped is leaving us all vulnerable.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - cblum 7y ago
      Do you have a source for that?
      - Forbo 7y ago
        https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038/u-s-citizen-held-by-immigration-for-3-years-denied-compensation-by-appeals-court https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038...
  - staticjak 7y ago
    I think people have a right to exist. If they are seeking asylum and they are not a threat, I think we should help each other out. Turning your backs on them because you don't like their race/religion goes against what America was supposed to be about. If we deport everyone who isn't legal knowing they'll either be killed or separated from their families, that speaks volumes about our country's morals and compassion. Deporting people because they don't "deserve" to be here is an extremely elitist attitude.
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      I don't think it has anything to do with race or religion. There's not a country in the world with open borders. Most first world countries are actually harder to get into than the US. It's odd to me that people started worrying about ICE en mass when Trump became president. It's an organization that has existed since 2003. In addition nearly every country in the world has similar or more stringent policies. Yet no one talks about that and they act as if ICE is unique in some capacity. It's hard to see that as anything other than politically motivated or misguided by media propaganda.
    - sojmq 7y ago
      People have a right to exist in their own countries. It would be unsustainable to let in everybody who wants to move to another country. That's why quotas, background checks, etc exist. Entering a country illegally knowing that it will mean you'll be splitting your family in half speaks volumes about the morals and compassion of the person who does that.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > ICE is terrifying whenever we travel As a child of immigrants and proud American, I’m not sure “terrifying” is a fair response. It’s certainly uncomfortable. But it shouldn’t be enough to push one (here legally) into depression to the point of suicide or drug use.
  - dfcagency 7y ago
    You need to reflect on your privilege that you don't fear US Customs and ICE.
  - anarchodev 7y ago
    "I'm not sure it's fair that you're terrified." This is probably the darkest distillation of 2019 neoliberal energy I've heard across many platforms. "That shouldn't push one into depression to the point of suicide or drug use." Please spend some effort in 2020 developing empathy for other humans.
- leoh 7y ago
  It's truly deplorable what ICE is doing. Many people fret about what ICE is doing (including myself at times) to a degree that is absolutely debilitating. I think the point here — though OP has stated it in a deeply awkward and arguably insensitive manner — is that it is better to relieve oneself of crippling worry for things outside of their control, even if they are profoundly harmful. That is not to say that one should relieve oneself of profound and deep concern and compassion for those affected; and one, where is possible, should do all that they can to help in an authentic manner. A preponderance of crippling worry, however, seems to me to cause either (a) inaction due to despair (which in some cases may be as harmful as ignorance) (b) complete support of a harmful situation in question (e.g. the alt-right supporting profoundly cruel anti-immigration policies).
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    I agree with this, but I’m pointing out the examples provided are more than a lack of tact- it’s choosing disengagement and by disengaging assuming no one else has legitimate worries or lives a life different than them. It’s an apathy that’s the same side of the worry coin.
    - leoh 7y ago
      Agreed.
    - eric_b 7y ago
      Obviously I was being rhetorical. I was speaking in strong certainties to elicit a response. Obviously in your case ICE is a concern. For 99% of the people who are paralyzed by thinking about it - they would be better served focusing on getting back to their life. (And voting for people who MIGHT do something about it)
      - basq 7y ago
        For what it's worth, my circumstances agree with you. I've become much less stressed out on the day to day by ungluing my eyes from newsmedia.
- Mountain_Skies 7y ago
  Are your parents here with legal status? My parents have been legal permanent residents for half a century. Their only worry over the years has been if they were ever detained "back home" would they be able to somehow get back to the United States. If your parents have legal status, not sure why ICE would be relevant to their lives or yours.
  - cranky_coder 7y ago
    Because time and time ICE has shown it has a remarkable ability to define “legal status” as it sees fit. Consider the fake college ICE[0] used to arrest and deport immigrants; they were granted Student Visas and believed they were here legally. What would your advice be to them? Your position seems to start from an assumption that these institutions are acting in good faith, and so it’s illogical to decry an institution if it doesn’t directly impact you. I pray you look at the gamut of evidence available that shows this simply isn’t the case. [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/11/27/more-than-250-immigrants-arrested-at-fake-college-set-up-by-ice-in-michigan%3fmedia=AMP%2bHTML https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/ar...
    - cblum 7y ago
      This must be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard of. Imagine the cost of setting all that up, and going through the process with each student to get their visas. Only to tell them on arrival they’ve been tricked. What exactly were they trying to accomplish with that?
    - Forbo 7y ago
      Non-AMP link: https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/11/27/more-than-250-immigrants-arrested-at-fake-college-set-up-by-ice-in-michigan https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/11/27/mor...
    - oh_sigh 7y ago
      > "Their true intent could not be clearer," Assistant U.S. Attorney Brandon Helms wrote in a sentencing memo earlier this month. "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
nixpulvis 7y ago
Hmmmm, I believe I "am" making some meaningful difference. Even if it's just yelling at the fucked up shit. I will not go quietly into the night.
- Joe-Z 7y ago
  Then it seems you'll stay in this depressed state for a while longer. I agree 100% with what OP said, having experienced the benefits for myself. I never actually 'quit fb' or whatever, I just lost interest after realizing how constantly bombarded I am with stuff that has absolutely no relevance to my _actual_ life. I wish you all the best and brighter days in the future. EDIT: oh, btw your comment resonated with me because of the 'scream into the night' thing. That's also how I felt when I was a teenager who was into punkrock. There's this sense that your suffering somehow accomplishes a sort of martyrdom. But it really doesn't and it only helps to further one's negative thoughts.
  - nixpulvis 7y ago
    Hey man, did you hear Rage Against the Machine is making a comeback? Just because I'm depressed about these things doesn't mean I'm depressed. Or at least not usually. Life's weird.
- eric_b 7y ago
  I don't even know how to respond to this. Do you really believe "yelling at the fucked up shit" will do anything positive? There is no change without actual action. If anything whining in to the wind will just exhaust and alienate people.
  - nixpulvis 7y ago
    Charismatic yelling is empowering, otherwise it's just whining I suppose.
seppin 7y ago
By that logic if you lived in a nice countyside vila in Poland during WW2 you should not have been worried at all about what was going on around you.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
powvans 7y ago
It matters so much how we define the world for ourselves. I can't make much difference in the world if I define the world as all of humanity. If I change my perspective and see my world as my family, friends, coworkers, and community I can suddenly see so many incredible opportunities to make a difference. Look around and find the things that you can pick up and improve.

by eric_b 7y ago

SolaceQuantum 7y ago

"How does ICE affect your day to day?" I'm a child of immigrants and am in n immigrant family! ICE is terrifying whenever we travel, whenever my family tries to advocate that they deserve to stay with each other, etc. I worry every day if I can raise my two younger siblings by myself should my parents ever be deported!

sergiotapia 7y ago
Are your parents in the US illegally?
sojmq 7y ago
Nobody "deserves" to stay in another country unless they are there legally.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  Legal USA residents and citizens have been detained for months by ICE, JSYK. Believing your legal status protects you from having your rights stripped is leaving us all vulnerable.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - cblum 7y ago
    Do you have a source for that?
    - Forbo 7y ago
      https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038/u-s-citizen-held-by-immigration-for-3-years-denied-compensation-by-appeals-court https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038...
- staticjak 7y ago
  I think people have a right to exist. If they are seeking asylum and they are not a threat, I think we should help each other out. Turning your backs on them because you don't like their race/religion goes against what America was supposed to be about. If we deport everyone who isn't legal knowing they'll either be killed or separated from their families, that speaks volumes about our country's morals and compassion. Deporting people because they don't "deserve" to be here is an extremely elitist attitude.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    I don't think it has anything to do with race or religion. There's not a country in the world with open borders. Most first world countries are actually harder to get into than the US. It's odd to me that people started worrying about ICE en mass when Trump became president. It's an organization that has existed since 2003. In addition nearly every country in the world has similar or more stringent policies. Yet no one talks about that and they act as if ICE is unique in some capacity. It's hard to see that as anything other than politically motivated or misguided by media propaganda.
  - sojmq 7y ago
    People have a right to exist in their own countries. It would be unsustainable to let in everybody who wants to move to another country. That's why quotas, background checks, etc exist. Entering a country illegally knowing that it will mean you'll be splitting your family in half speaks volumes about the morals and compassion of the person who does that.
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> ICE is terrifying whenever we travel As a child of immigrants and proud American, I’m not sure “terrifying” is a fair response. It’s certainly uncomfortable. But it shouldn’t be enough to push one (here legally) into depression to the point of suicide or drug use.
- dfcagency 7y ago
  You need to reflect on your privilege that you don't fear US Customs and ICE.
- anarchodev 7y ago
  "I'm not sure it's fair that you're terrified." This is probably the darkest distillation of 2019 neoliberal energy I've heard across many platforms. "That shouldn't push one into depression to the point of suicide or drug use." Please spend some effort in 2020 developing empathy for other humans.
leoh 7y ago
It's truly deplorable what ICE is doing. Many people fret about what ICE is doing (including myself at times) to a degree that is absolutely debilitating. I think the point here — though OP has stated it in a deeply awkward and arguably insensitive manner — is that it is better to relieve oneself of crippling worry for things outside of their control, even if they are profoundly harmful. That is not to say that one should relieve oneself of profound and deep concern and compassion for those affected; and one, where is possible, should do all that they can to help in an authentic manner. A preponderance of crippling worry, however, seems to me to cause either (a) inaction due to despair (which in some cases may be as harmful as ignorance) (b) complete support of a harmful situation in question (e.g. the alt-right supporting profoundly cruel anti-immigration policies).
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  I agree with this, but I’m pointing out the examples provided are more than a lack of tact- it’s choosing disengagement and by disengaging assuming no one else has legitimate worries or lives a life different than them. It’s an apathy that’s the same side of the worry coin.
  - leoh 7y ago
    Agreed.
  - eric_b 7y ago
    Obviously I was being rhetorical. I was speaking in strong certainties to elicit a response. Obviously in your case ICE is a concern. For 99% of the people who are paralyzed by thinking about it - they would be better served focusing on getting back to their life. (And voting for people who MIGHT do something about it)
    - basq 7y ago
      For what it's worth, my circumstances agree with you. I've become much less stressed out on the day to day by ungluing my eyes from newsmedia.
Mountain_Skies 7y ago
Are your parents here with legal status? My parents have been legal permanent residents for half a century. Their only worry over the years has been if they were ever detained "back home" would they be able to somehow get back to the United States. If your parents have legal status, not sure why ICE would be relevant to their lives or yours.
- cranky_coder 7y ago
  Because time and time ICE has shown it has a remarkable ability to define “legal status” as it sees fit. Consider the fake college ICE[0] used to arrest and deport immigrants; they were granted Student Visas and believed they were here legally. What would your advice be to them? Your position seems to start from an assumption that these institutions are acting in good faith, and so it’s illogical to decry an institution if it doesn’t directly impact you. I pray you look at the gamut of evidence available that shows this simply isn’t the case. [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/11/27/more-than-250-immigrants-arrested-at-fake-college-set-up-by-ice-in-michigan%3fmedia=AMP%2bHTML https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/ar...
  - cblum 7y ago
    This must be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard of. Imagine the cost of setting all that up, and going through the process with each student to get their visas. Only to tell them on arrival they’ve been tricked. What exactly were they trying to accomplish with that?
  - Forbo 7y ago
    Non-AMP link: https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/11/27/more-than-250-immigrants-arrested-at-fake-college-set-up-by-ice-in-michigan https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/11/27/mor...
  - oh_sigh 7y ago
    > "Their true intent could not be clearer," Assistant U.S. Attorney Brandon Helms wrote in a sentencing memo earlier this month. "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."

nixpulvis 7y ago

Hmmmm, I believe I "am" making some meaningful difference. Even if it's just yelling at the fucked up shit. I will not go quietly into the night.

Joe-Z 7y ago
Then it seems you'll stay in this depressed state for a while longer. I agree 100% with what OP said, having experienced the benefits for myself. I never actually 'quit fb' or whatever, I just lost interest after realizing how constantly bombarded I am with stuff that has absolutely no relevance to my _actual_ life. I wish you all the best and brighter days in the future. EDIT: oh, btw your comment resonated with me because of the 'scream into the night' thing. That's also how I felt when I was a teenager who was into punkrock. There's this sense that your suffering somehow accomplishes a sort of martyrdom. But it really doesn't and it only helps to further one's negative thoughts.
- nixpulvis 7y ago
  Hey man, did you hear Rage Against the Machine is making a comeback? Just because I'm depressed about these things doesn't mean I'm depressed. Or at least not usually. Life's weird.
eric_b 7y ago
I don't even know how to respond to this. Do you really believe "yelling at the fucked up shit" will do anything positive? There is no change without actual action. If anything whining in to the wind will just exhaust and alienate people.
- nixpulvis 7y ago
  Charismatic yelling is empowering, otherwise it's just whining I suppose.

seppin 7y ago

By that logic if you lived in a nice countyside vila in Poland during WW2 you should not have been worried at all about what was going on around you.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

powvans 7y ago

It matters so much how we define the world for ourselves. I can't make much difference in the world if I define the world as all of humanity. If I change my perspective and see my world as my family, friends, coworkers, and community I can suddenly see so many incredible opportunities to make a difference. Look around and find the things that you can pick up and improve.