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I am not a bee. I have no queen. I am not part of a hive, I am a social individual. This hive mind over-simplification is ridiculous and to me: disgusting. As

by Xc43 7y ago

I am not a bee. I have no queen. I am not part of a hive, I am a social individual. This hive mind over-simplification is ridiculous and to me: disgusting. As if we were one

shkkmo 7y ago
The existence of a hive mind (or multiple) does not rule out the existence of individuality (not vise versa), it can be an emergent property of multitudinous individualistic interactions. The degree of influence varies depending on person and subject. We all tend to be conformist in some ways and iconoclastic in others. We may not be a hive mind, but we may have one.
- Xc43 7y ago
  Some realities cannot be reduced nor should they be reduced to analogies like "hive". Our social reality is irreductible being the most complex one known. Hive mind as an emergent property still implies a common thing for which one lives. Or a queen. A peer that is one's reason to live. The closest thing I can see to a hive mind is the army. We are all different and it is not because a person one talks with does not express a different opinion does it mean he thinks the same. Would one say that lions have a hive mind?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - short_sells_poo 7y ago
    > Some realities cannot be reduced nor should they be reduced to analogies like "hive". Our social reality is irreductible being the most complex one known. I don't understand how that has any bearing on whether human society can form hive minds or hive mind like entities. > Hive mind as an emergent property still implies a common thing for which one lives. Or a queen. A peer that is one's reason to live. No that is absolutely not what a hive mind is. A hive mind is a collective consciousness. That's it. It says nothing about the objectives or agency of it's parts. > We are all different and it is not because a person one talks with does not express a different opinion does it mean he thinks the same. You seem to be laboring under the apprehension that a hive mind supplants the consciousness of it's parts. That may be the case for certain hive minds, but it is not a necessary feature. A hive mind can just be an emergent property of individual minds that are strongly connected but still retain agency.
    - Xc43 7y ago
      Mindless conformity is inhuman. We are more tribal than "hival". Thanks for precising hive mind, I understand it better now. Hive mind can be seen as uncritical conformity or collective intelligence. Because it can be understood as uncritical conformity I will use another word/concept. Like tribal mind. Because it suggests tribes (plural) that one belongs to or not, status, etc
misterman0 7y ago
To state that one is not a part of the hive on one of the biggest hive sites in the world, is humorous. You're a bee, dawg.
- Xc43 7y ago
  Have you ever seen a real hive bro? I see you consider yourself as part of one, but do you even realize the implications or just mindlessly accept it? I am not and will never a bee. This analogy is demonstration of laziness.
  - munmaek 7y ago
    Everyone is a bee to an extent, unless they live as a hermit. We’re all part of a larger system and have certain things to do (work, pay taxes, and so on). With the advent of the internet, behavior will continue to grow more hive-like due to basically instantaneous communication. Is that so bad?
    - goatlover 7y ago
      Wouldn’t ants bee a better metaphor? The thing is though that apes aren’t insects, and thus their social arrangements are a bit different, with individuality being more prominent among The large brain mammals.
    - Xc43 7y ago
      To an extent. Certainly not to the extent that it is a worthy comparison. Conformity is not bad in itself. What is bad is the comparison to a mindless drone. I would go more for something like tribe mind instead of hive mind.
jcims 7y ago
>social individual There’s your hive
- Xc43 7y ago
  Spiders interact with each other. Are they part of a hive?
  - CamperBob2 7y ago
    Other than mating (and then killing their mates), how do spiders interact?
    - Xc43 7y ago
      My point is they do not interact in a way we would qualify as hive. Neither do we.
short_sells_poo 7y ago
A hive mind is not something exclusive to bees or having a queen. As a matter of fact, a hive mind almost by definition cannot be concentrated to a single individual like a queen, so I'm not sure why you are so anchored to disputing that your are a bee? If we define hive mind as a collective consciousness, then for sure one can argue that such a thing seems to be arising in human society. As a matter of fact in modern parlance it is fine to call a strongly unifying force, set of norms, school of thought or strong social bonds a hive mind. The hive mind can still be constructed of individuals capable of agency and independent action. It does not replace the minds of it's constituents, rather it can be thought of as an emergent property of many individual agents forming a deeply connected collective.
gdy 7y ago
You have a queen and it makes you pay taxes and obey laws
- Xc43 7y ago
  Being forced to pay taxes and obey laws is not having a hive mind. Nor does the government equals a being that I serve.
  - gdy 7y ago
    Perhaps bees think the same
r3trohack3r 7y ago
I feel like you’re over-indexing on the word “hive”. It’s not about having a queen or mindlessly following. Being a part of a hive mind doesn’t make you a lemming. Example to demonstrate: assume you know calculus. How much of calculus did you discover yourself? How much of the corpus of math that led up to calculus did you discover yourself? How much of that corpus is your individual contribution vs. how much of it represents the brain power of hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of other humans throughout history exploring that problem domain? For any given problem domain, humans have documented it in a shared corpus that you can “download” into your brain. You are an individual. You still get to choose what to download and how to interpret it. But you are still sharing in a commons when you do this. That commons is what I’m referring to as a hive mind, it’s a shared consciousness where our collective brain power is building a corpus that no single brain could. It extends far beyond ourselves.

by Xc43 7y ago

I am not a bee. I have no queen. I am not part of a hive, I am a social individual. This hive mind over-simplification is ridiculous and to me: disgusting. As if we were one

shkkmo 7y ago

The existence of a hive mind (or multiple) does not rule out the existence of individuality (not vise versa), it can be an emergent property of multitudinous individualistic interactions. The degree of influence varies depending on person and subject. We all tend to be conformist in some ways and iconoclastic in others. We may not be a hive mind, but we may have one.

Xc43 7y ago
Some realities cannot be reduced nor should they be reduced to analogies like "hive". Our social reality is irreductible being the most complex one known. Hive mind as an emergent property still implies a common thing for which one lives. Or a queen. A peer that is one's reason to live. The closest thing I can see to a hive mind is the army. We are all different and it is not because a person one talks with does not express a different opinion does it mean he thinks the same. Would one say that lions have a hive mind?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- short_sells_poo 7y ago
  > Some realities cannot be reduced nor should they be reduced to analogies like "hive". Our social reality is irreductible being the most complex one known. I don't understand how that has any bearing on whether human society can form hive minds or hive mind like entities. > Hive mind as an emergent property still implies a common thing for which one lives. Or a queen. A peer that is one's reason to live. No that is absolutely not what a hive mind is. A hive mind is a collective consciousness. That's it. It says nothing about the objectives or agency of it's parts. > We are all different and it is not because a person one talks with does not express a different opinion does it mean he thinks the same. You seem to be laboring under the apprehension that a hive mind supplants the consciousness of it's parts. That may be the case for certain hive minds, but it is not a necessary feature. A hive mind can just be an emergent property of individual minds that are strongly connected but still retain agency.
  - Xc43 7y ago
    Mindless conformity is inhuman. We are more tribal than "hival". Thanks for precising hive mind, I understand it better now. Hive mind can be seen as uncritical conformity or collective intelligence. Because it can be understood as uncritical conformity I will use another word/concept. Like tribal mind. Because it suggests tribes (plural) that one belongs to or not, status, etc

misterman0 7y ago

To state that one is not a part of the hive on one of the biggest hive sites in the world, is humorous. You're a bee, dawg.

Xc43 7y ago
Have you ever seen a real hive bro? I see you consider yourself as part of one, but do you even realize the implications or just mindlessly accept it? I am not and will never a bee. This analogy is demonstration of laziness.
- munmaek 7y ago
  Everyone is a bee to an extent, unless they live as a hermit. We’re all part of a larger system and have certain things to do (work, pay taxes, and so on). With the advent of the internet, behavior will continue to grow more hive-like due to basically instantaneous communication. Is that so bad?
  - goatlover 7y ago
    Wouldn’t ants bee a better metaphor? The thing is though that apes aren’t insects, and thus their social arrangements are a bit different, with individuality being more prominent among The large brain mammals.
  - Xc43 7y ago
    To an extent. Certainly not to the extent that it is a worthy comparison. Conformity is not bad in itself. What is bad is the comparison to a mindless drone. I would go more for something like tribe mind instead of hive mind.

jcims 7y ago

>social individual There’s your hive

Xc43 7y ago
Spiders interact with each other. Are they part of a hive?
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  Other than mating (and then killing their mates), how do spiders interact?
  - Xc43 7y ago
    My point is they do not interact in a way we would qualify as hive. Neither do we.

short_sells_poo 7y ago

A hive mind is not something exclusive to bees or having a queen. As a matter of fact, a hive mind almost by definition cannot be concentrated to a single individual like a queen, so I'm not sure why you are so anchored to disputing that your are a bee? If we define hive mind as a collective consciousness, then for sure one can argue that such a thing seems to be arising in human society. As a matter of fact in modern parlance it is fine to call a strongly unifying force, set of norms, school of thought or strong social bonds a hive mind. The hive mind can still be constructed of individuals capable of agency and independent action. It does not replace the minds of it's constituents, rather it can be thought of as an emergent property of many individual agents forming a deeply connected collective.

gdy 7y ago

You have a queen and it makes you pay taxes and obey laws

Xc43 7y ago
Being forced to pay taxes and obey laws is not having a hive mind. Nor does the government equals a being that I serve.
- gdy 7y ago
  Perhaps bees think the same

r3trohack3r 7y ago

I feel like you’re over-indexing on the word “hive”. It’s not about having a queen or mindlessly following. Being a part of a hive mind doesn’t make you a lemming. Example to demonstrate: assume you know calculus. How much of calculus did you discover yourself? How much of the corpus of math that led up to calculus did you discover yourself? How much of that corpus is your individual contribution vs. how much of it represents the brain power of hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of other humans throughout history exploring that problem domain? For any given problem domain, humans have documented it in a shared corpus that you can “download” into your brain. You are an individual. You still get to choose what to download and how to interpret it. But you are still sharing in a commons when you do this. That commons is what I’m referring to as a hive mind, it’s a shared consciousness where our collective brain power is building a corpus that no single brain could. It extends far beyond ourselves.