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>Most improvements in 19.10 can be attributed to the latest release of GNOME 3.34, the default desktop for Ubuntu. However, GNOME 3.34 is faster largely because

>Most improvements in 19.10 can be attributed to the latest release of GNOME 3.34, the default desktop for Ubuntu. However, GNOME 3.34 is faster largely because of work Canonical engineers put in At least everyone can stop hating on Gnome now. Secondly, Fedora 31 has had Gnome 3.34 for more than a month now. This article does seem like a disservice.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Spivak 7y ago
Fedora, despite being awesome, doesn’t have the name recognition or market penetration that Ubuntu does. Ubuntu shipping with 3.34 is realistically when the bulk of Linux desktop/laptop users will see it.
- proverbialbunny 7y ago
  >Ubuntu shipping with 3.34 is realistically when the bulk of Linux desktop/laptop users will see it. Fedora is up there. In 2019 Fedora may potentially have a larger "desktop" user base than Ubuntu. Often times people will lump in Ubuntu based distros as Ubuntu, inflating Ubuntu's popularity, but in this day and age Mint probably has more desktop users than Ubuntu. Ubuntu's popularity is being reduced to AWS these days, but lets be fair here: Who uses Ubuntu as their primary desktop of choice when there is better distros for every user need? Right now, Ubuntu is the goto desktop OS for those who want to run two gpus on a laptop and that's about it.
  - rlpb 7y ago
    > ...but in this day and age Mint probably has more desktop users than Ubuntu. I find that claim very hard to believe. I'm an Ubuntu developer. I see both bug reports from users, and fixes being landed. It is rare to see a report from a Mint user, and even rarer to see any fix that is attributed to having come from the Mint community, whether that's landing in Ubuntu directly or via upstream. Either the Mint community keeps fixes to themselves (I doubt it because it's very difficult to maintain a derivative distribution that way), or Mint users and developers aren't affected by or don't report/fix any bugs affecting them whose root cause is upstream (seems unlikely, given the firehose of reports and patches Ubuntu developers send upstream), or there are relatively far fewer Mint users than you think. Disclosure: I'm also a Canonical employee. However this opinion is my own and I am not representing my employer in making this comment.
    - suby 7y ago
      Could be that Mint users are generally less technical (I say this as a Mint user -- it is advertised as the user / noob friendly option) and thus less likely to report issues to the proper authorities.
      - rlpb 7y ago
        I don't think so. Ubuntu paved the way for non-technical users, and unfortunately this is evident in the quality of a large number of bug reports that we receive. Trying to stay objective, it's certainly not in dispute that Ubuntu is also "advertised as the user / noob friendly option" and continues to take this stance. From this perspective, the difference between Debian user feedback and Ubuntu user feedback is night and day (I'm also a Debian developer). I don't think the difference between Ubuntu and Mint is anything nearly like that.
    - proverbialbunny 7y ago
      That's like saying I work at Microsoft and I haven't seen much bug reports sent to me about OSX, so I'm skeptical with the idea that people use Apple products. Unfortunately we don't have anything more accurate: https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity I've reported a bug on github over at https://github.com/linuxmint https://github.com/linuxmint I've reported bugs elsewhere too, but I just write what Ubuntu version I'm using within Mint, because that's more relevant. shrugs
ohazi 7y ago
I'm not sure people were hating on Gnome because of performance. Their overall design decision to pretend that v3 was somehow running on a tablet instead of a desktop is still pretty questionable.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  It has paid off though as touchscreen devices have become a lot more common. The fact that one can now run a modern Linux desktop on an actual tablet is also pretty nifty.
  - stonogo 7y ago
    Which tablet?
    - farisjarrah 7y ago
      There are x86 tablets out there and also many people have done raspberry pi touch screen builds.
    - Fnoord 7y ago
      Arguably, the tablet revolution never came, but the large smartphone revolution did. Software like PureOS en PostmarketOS exists because KDE and GNOME and other software was made touch-friendlier.
  - BoorishBears 7y ago
    I have a Surface, easily the most popular x86 tablet. Running Linux on it had been a nightmare, I tried surface-linux and that just broke sleep. To this day I cannot reliably get Wi-Fi to work out of sleep despite trying every fix in the book. Sound breaks out of sleep. Hi-DPI support is still a joke, which is a problem when most (all?) high end x86 tablets have hi resolution screens since they're meant to be used up close. At one point I started to get logged out every 60 seconds if I tried to put the cover on it. Turns out hibernation was improperly configured, so instead of warning me, it'd log me out, try to hibernate, then try again 60 seconds later.
znpy 7y ago
> At least everyone can stop hating on Gnome now. Meh, I won't. Gnome 3.34 might be faster, but you can't reasonably expect that to last across the future releases. Gnome developers have a week established tradition of fucking up their users. I'll keep my simple life on Xfce.
garaetjjte 7y ago
>At least everyone can stop hating on Gnome now. Performance isn't only reason for that. Mainly bizarre GNOME3 design decisions: lack of taskbar, tablet-like interface, atrocious file picker dialog, etc. Also maintainer attitude to themes and extensions, here's one rant from 2012: https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/ https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotti...
- suby 7y ago
  I tried out Ubuntu the other day and couldn't figure out how to make a text file from the GUI. I googled it and it looks like you have to create an empty file in the templates folder in order to get that option when you right click. My assumption is that they went out of their way to remove the menu option for creating text files, because apparently that's not something normal people want to do.
- strbean 7y ago
  Is there a good "best of FLOSS drama" feed I can subscribe to? :)
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  Are you seriously claiming that Gnome hasn't changed at all since 2012?
  - garaetjjte 7y ago
    No, but most critique is still valid. Weird tablet-like UI, missing features. (like that absurd file chooser which lacks prefix-search in current directory)
mackal 7y ago
Maybe if the devs stopped hating on end users, people would stop hating on GNOME.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Spivak 7y ago

Fedora, despite being awesome, doesn’t have the name recognition or market penetration that Ubuntu does. Ubuntu shipping with 3.34 is realistically when the bulk of Linux desktop/laptop users will see it.

proverbialbunny 7y ago
>Ubuntu shipping with 3.34 is realistically when the bulk of Linux desktop/laptop users will see it. Fedora is up there. In 2019 Fedora may potentially have a larger "desktop" user base than Ubuntu. Often times people will lump in Ubuntu based distros as Ubuntu, inflating Ubuntu's popularity, but in this day and age Mint probably has more desktop users than Ubuntu. Ubuntu's popularity is being reduced to AWS these days, but lets be fair here: Who uses Ubuntu as their primary desktop of choice when there is better distros for every user need? Right now, Ubuntu is the goto desktop OS for those who want to run two gpus on a laptop and that's about it.
- rlpb 7y ago
  > ...but in this day and age Mint probably has more desktop users than Ubuntu. I find that claim very hard to believe. I'm an Ubuntu developer. I see both bug reports from users, and fixes being landed. It is rare to see a report from a Mint user, and even rarer to see any fix that is attributed to having come from the Mint community, whether that's landing in Ubuntu directly or via upstream. Either the Mint community keeps fixes to themselves (I doubt it because it's very difficult to maintain a derivative distribution that way), or Mint users and developers aren't affected by or don't report/fix any bugs affecting them whose root cause is upstream (seems unlikely, given the firehose of reports and patches Ubuntu developers send upstream), or there are relatively far fewer Mint users than you think. Disclosure: I'm also a Canonical employee. However this opinion is my own and I am not representing my employer in making this comment.
  - suby 7y ago
    Could be that Mint users are generally less technical (I say this as a Mint user -- it is advertised as the user / noob friendly option) and thus less likely to report issues to the proper authorities.
    - rlpb 7y ago
      I don't think so. Ubuntu paved the way for non-technical users, and unfortunately this is evident in the quality of a large number of bug reports that we receive. Trying to stay objective, it's certainly not in dispute that Ubuntu is also "advertised as the user / noob friendly option" and continues to take this stance. From this perspective, the difference between Debian user feedback and Ubuntu user feedback is night and day (I'm also a Debian developer). I don't think the difference between Ubuntu and Mint is anything nearly like that.
  - proverbialbunny 7y ago
    That's like saying I work at Microsoft and I haven't seen much bug reports sent to me about OSX, so I'm skeptical with the idea that people use Apple products. Unfortunately we don't have anything more accurate: https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity I've reported a bug on github over at https://github.com/linuxmint https://github.com/linuxmint I've reported bugs elsewhere too, but I just write what Ubuntu version I'm using within Mint, because that's more relevant. shrugs

ohazi 7y ago

I'm not sure people were hating on Gnome because of performance. Their overall design decision to pretend that v3 was somehow running on a tablet instead of a desktop is still pretty questionable.

zozbot234 7y ago
It has paid off though as touchscreen devices have become a lot more common. The fact that one can now run a modern Linux desktop on an actual tablet is also pretty nifty.
- stonogo 7y ago
  Which tablet?
  - farisjarrah 7y ago
    There are x86 tablets out there and also many people have done raspberry pi touch screen builds.
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    Arguably, the tablet revolution never came, but the large smartphone revolution did. Software like PureOS en PostmarketOS exists because KDE and GNOME and other software was made touch-friendlier.
- BoorishBears 7y ago
  I have a Surface, easily the most popular x86 tablet. Running Linux on it had been a nightmare, I tried surface-linux and that just broke sleep. To this day I cannot reliably get Wi-Fi to work out of sleep despite trying every fix in the book. Sound breaks out of sleep. Hi-DPI support is still a joke, which is a problem when most (all?) high end x86 tablets have hi resolution screens since they're meant to be used up close. At one point I started to get logged out every 60 seconds if I tried to put the cover on it. Turns out hibernation was improperly configured, so instead of warning me, it'd log me out, try to hibernate, then try again 60 seconds later.

znpy 7y ago

> At least everyone can stop hating on Gnome now. Meh, I won't. Gnome 3.34 might be faster, but you can't reasonably expect that to last across the future releases. Gnome developers have a week established tradition of fucking up their users. I'll keep my simple life on Xfce.

garaetjjte 7y ago

>At least everyone can stop hating on Gnome now. Performance isn't only reason for that. Mainly bizarre GNOME3 design decisions: lack of taskbar, tablet-like interface, atrocious file picker dialog, etc. Also maintainer attitude to themes and extensions, here's one rant from 2012: https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/ https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotti...

suby 7y ago
I tried out Ubuntu the other day and couldn't figure out how to make a text file from the GUI. I googled it and it looks like you have to create an empty file in the templates folder in order to get that option when you right click. My assumption is that they went out of their way to remove the menu option for creating text files, because apparently that's not something normal people want to do.
strbean 7y ago
Is there a good "best of FLOSS drama" feed I can subscribe to? :)
SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
Are you seriously claiming that Gnome hasn't changed at all since 2012?
- garaetjjte 7y ago
  No, but most critique is still valid. Weird tablet-like UI, missing features. (like that absurd file chooser which lacks prefix-search in current directory)

mackal 7y ago

Maybe if the devs stopped hating on end users, people would stop hating on GNOME.