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"Yeah, this is the most frustrating part of all this. Halting climate change isn't even that hard and would clearly benefit billions of people. It just affects

by rsync 7y ago

"Yeah, this is the most frustrating part of all this. Halting climate change isn't even that hard and would clearly benefit billions of people. It just affects the pocketbooks of a couple of rich people ..." I note, with interest, that France enacted the most modest of modest steps toward this goal and the result was nationwide riots in the streets that continue to this day. I, also, would like to live in the Star Trek future I always dreamed of where we drive electric cars and generate power in new and elegant ways ... I'm not sure how easy it will be.

polotics 7y ago
Nope, France's president E.Macron tried to pull a fast one, raising tax on fuel and diverting the income towards financing the state, which was most needed because he also removed the ISF: Impôt sur la Fortune...
- thu2111 7y ago
  Well, yes, all taxes divert income towards financing the state. That's rather the definition of a tax. That isn't an argument against rsync's point, which is that raising fuel taxes in France triggered months of nationwide rioting by people wearing yellow vests, symbolic because French people have to have them in their cars by law. That is they literally made the symbol of their protests a symbol of car driving. The UK is less prone to riots. However the government abandoned its fuel tax escalator policy ("automatic" fuel tax increases) after a series of protests by truckers who blockaded ports and threatened to bring about a collapse of supply chains. The conclusion I draw from all this is simple but brutal:governments have nothing they can do about climate change. Nor do protestors, nor do most people. The only people who can make any difference at all are a small group of scientists (not climate scientists), and (primarily) engineers. It's only engineers who develop better cars and power generation techniques who shift the needle. The rest of us might as well forget about it.
- Xixi 7y ago
  The underlying policy predates Macron, as it was decided under Hollande (albeit Macron was his economy minister). The policy is to raise taxes on gas little by little to reduce its usage, and that of diesel even more quickly so that the prices of "normal" gas and diesel would converge by 2022. [1] Macron decided to go faster than initially decided by Hollande. I would not call that a "fast one", especially given that IIRC it was announced during his electoral campaign. Macron electors are mostly urban middle class, so are not affected by taxes on gas that much... [1] Here is a graph (the article is in French): https://www.ledauphine.com/economie-et-finance/2018/10/24/prix-des-carburants-l-autre-fracture-territoriale https://www.ledauphine.com/economie-et-finance/2018/10/24/pr...
  - polotics 7y ago
    The fast one was, sorry I forgot to mention: the tax was justified as financing green initiatives, but a small oart of the proceed went that way... Also some leaked emails about this being an actual scheme, look it up.
dv_dt 7y ago
He also did it on the backs of the same protesting working people, while cutting taxes on the rich - hence the protests.

by rsync 7y ago

polotics 7y ago

Nope, France's president E.Macron tried to pull a fast one, raising tax on fuel and diverting the income towards financing the state, which was most needed because he also removed the ISF: Impôt sur la Fortune...

thu2111 7y ago
Well, yes, all taxes divert income towards financing the state. That's rather the definition of a tax. That isn't an argument against rsync's point, which is that raising fuel taxes in France triggered months of nationwide rioting by people wearing yellow vests, symbolic because French people have to have them in their cars by law. That is they literally made the symbol of their protests a symbol of car driving. The UK is less prone to riots. However the government abandoned its fuel tax escalator policy ("automatic" fuel tax increases) after a series of protests by truckers who blockaded ports and threatened to bring about a collapse of supply chains. The conclusion I draw from all this is simple but brutal:governments have nothing they can do about climate change. Nor do protestors, nor do most people. The only people who can make any difference at all are a small group of scientists (not climate scientists), and (primarily) engineers. It's only engineers who develop better cars and power generation techniques who shift the needle. The rest of us might as well forget about it.
Xixi 7y ago
The underlying policy predates Macron, as it was decided under Hollande (albeit Macron was his economy minister). The policy is to raise taxes on gas little by little to reduce its usage, and that of diesel even more quickly so that the prices of "normal" gas and diesel would converge by 2022. [1] Macron decided to go faster than initially decided by Hollande. I would not call that a "fast one", especially given that IIRC it was announced during his electoral campaign. Macron electors are mostly urban middle class, so are not affected by taxes on gas that much... [1] Here is a graph (the article is in French): https://www.ledauphine.com/economie-et-finance/2018/10/24/prix-des-carburants-l-autre-fracture-territoriale https://www.ledauphine.com/economie-et-finance/2018/10/24/pr...
- polotics 7y ago
  The fast one was, sorry I forgot to mention: the tax was justified as financing green initiatives, but a small oart of the proceed went that way... Also some leaked emails about this being an actual scheme, look it up.

dv_dt 7y ago

He also did it on the backs of the same protesting working people, while cutting taxes on the rich - hence the protests.