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I'm a huge Tesla and Musk fan but I'll point out the feds are investigating spontaneous fires, not those associated with collisions. I saw a video of this happe

I'm a huge Tesla and Musk fan but I'll point out the feds are investigating spontaneous fires, not those associated with collisions. I saw a video of this happening with a parked Tesla. How many gasoline vehicles spontaneously burst into flame? Of course it's still rare, and I'll also mention that the Model 3 has a newer battery pack design and is not being investigated.

imglorp 7y ago
> How many gasoline vehicles spontaneously burst into flame Many, I think, mostly maintenance related. Frequent causes involve old gaskets or cracked fuel lines dripping onto the exhaust manifold, right on the side of the engine.
- DennisP 7y ago
  Well, true, good point. I think much fewer while parked and turned off. But I do remember now my old VW Bug manual, which detailed at least four ways the little beast could catch itself on fire.
  - hef19898 7y ago
    To be honest, the old VW Bug was technically a less than perfect car already back the day. A nice car, for sure and I love quirky old cars. But technically not perfect.
    - DennisP 7y ago
      Yeah "technically not perfect" pretty much sums up my experience with it :)
      - hef19898 7y ago
        On the other hand, four ways to self-ignite is an engineering feat in itself!
    - tomatotomato37 7y ago
      I mean it was essentially a mass produced shitbox designed to be affordable to someone living in the economic clusterfuck that was interwar Nazi Germany, you can't expect miracles
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >Many, I think, mostly maintenance related. Frequent causes involve old gaskets or cracked fuel lines dripping onto the exhaust manifold, right on the side of the engine. You're not wrong that fuel does sometimes catch fire but it is very rare for a fuel leak to cause a fire on its own. It usually happens after a fire starts elsewhere. Fuel system integrity in crashes has been scored in crash tests for a very, very long time (I recall reading about it when I was reviewing some microfiche with crash tests results of 70s pickups) so OEMs have been trying to build secure fuel systems for a long time and have gotten pretty good. With cross flow cylinder head designs (which every engine today has) there is no reason (it would be a waste of material to plumb it) to have fuel on the same side of the engine as the exhaust. The routing between the engine and the vehicle body basically always (i.e. I know of 0 exceptions but can't prove one doesn't exist) go out of their way not to run over exhaust. Fuel systems rarely have gasketed connections, almost everything is sealed with O-rings. Mature EV designs probably catch on fire less than ICE designs but not really for any of the reasons you specified. Fuel fires mostly come from crash damage to fuel tanks where the crash also leaves the vehicle overturned. Most fires come from electrical systems not related to the drive-train. Even engine fires are rarely fuel, animal nesting debris is a far more common cause.
jhayward 7y ago
> How many gasoline vehicles spontaneously burst into flame? Ford recalled 8.7 million cars for spontaneous fire risk.[1] And that's just one case. It happens more often than you'd think, and coverage of it in media tends to be subdued. Automotive is the largest source of advertising dollars for many media markets. [1] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-04-26-mn-63066-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-04-26-mn-63066-...
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  Comparing modern technology with decades old technology and claiming it's a fair comparison for safety standards is wildly disingenuous. How many modern vehicles spontaneously burst into flame? I could easily believe it's orders of magnitude larger than for Teslas, but when you make comparisons like you did it just discredits your entire argument.
  - jhayward 7y ago
    Ok, I provided one example. It's on you to prove the point then. Please provide relevant facts proving your case. Prove my point is wrong. Oh, and the majority of present-day ignitions in automobiles are still the exact same mechanical interlock switching types used since the 60's. Higher-end vehicles have solid state switching, but it's not the majority of vehicles. Also: https://abcnews.go.com/US/bmw-recalls-million-vehicles-fire-risk/story?id=50922136 https://abcnews.go.com/US/bmw-recalls-million-vehicles-fire-...
    - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
      You made a claim, not me. I just said your argument is flawed. I didn't say you're wrong - I believe you're probably right. But you didn't actually provide any data for your claim. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/222/Shifting-of-the-Burden-of-Proof https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFalla...
      - 7y ago
greglindahl 7y ago
Here's an article from last April about thousands of non-crash car fires in a population of 6 million cars: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47782247 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47782247

imglorp 7y ago

> How many gasoline vehicles spontaneously burst into flame Many, I think, mostly maintenance related. Frequent causes involve old gaskets or cracked fuel lines dripping onto the exhaust manifold, right on the side of the engine.

DennisP 7y ago
Well, true, good point. I think much fewer while parked and turned off. But I do remember now my old VW Bug manual, which detailed at least four ways the little beast could catch itself on fire.
- hef19898 7y ago
  To be honest, the old VW Bug was technically a less than perfect car already back the day. A nice car, for sure and I love quirky old cars. But technically not perfect.
  - DennisP 7y ago
    Yeah "technically not perfect" pretty much sums up my experience with it :)
    - hef19898 7y ago
      On the other hand, four ways to self-ignite is an engineering feat in itself!
  - tomatotomato37 7y ago
    I mean it was essentially a mass produced shitbox designed to be affordable to someone living in the economic clusterfuck that was interwar Nazi Germany, you can't expect miracles
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>Many, I think, mostly maintenance related. Frequent causes involve old gaskets or cracked fuel lines dripping onto the exhaust manifold, right on the side of the engine. You're not wrong that fuel does sometimes catch fire but it is very rare for a fuel leak to cause a fire on its own. It usually happens after a fire starts elsewhere. Fuel system integrity in crashes has been scored in crash tests for a very, very long time (I recall reading about it when I was reviewing some microfiche with crash tests results of 70s pickups) so OEMs have been trying to build secure fuel systems for a long time and have gotten pretty good. With cross flow cylinder head designs (which every engine today has) there is no reason (it would be a waste of material to plumb it) to have fuel on the same side of the engine as the exhaust. The routing between the engine and the vehicle body basically always (i.e. I know of 0 exceptions but can't prove one doesn't exist) go out of their way not to run over exhaust. Fuel systems rarely have gasketed connections, almost everything is sealed with O-rings. Mature EV designs probably catch on fire less than ICE designs but not really for any of the reasons you specified. Fuel fires mostly come from crash damage to fuel tanks where the crash also leaves the vehicle overturned. Most fires come from electrical systems not related to the drive-train. Even engine fires are rarely fuel, animal nesting debris is a far more common cause.

jhayward 7y ago

> How many gasoline vehicles spontaneously burst into flame? Ford recalled 8.7 million cars for spontaneous fire risk.[1] And that's just one case. It happens more often than you'd think, and coverage of it in media tends to be subdued. Automotive is the largest source of advertising dollars for many media markets. [1] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-04-26-mn-63066-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-04-26-mn-63066-...

OnlineGladiator 7y ago
Comparing modern technology with decades old technology and claiming it's a fair comparison for safety standards is wildly disingenuous. How many modern vehicles spontaneously burst into flame? I could easily believe it's orders of magnitude larger than for Teslas, but when you make comparisons like you did it just discredits your entire argument.
- jhayward 7y ago
  Ok, I provided one example. It's on you to prove the point then. Please provide relevant facts proving your case. Prove my point is wrong. Oh, and the majority of present-day ignitions in automobiles are still the exact same mechanical interlock switching types used since the 60's. Higher-end vehicles have solid state switching, but it's not the majority of vehicles. Also: https://abcnews.go.com/US/bmw-recalls-million-vehicles-fire-risk/story?id=50922136 https://abcnews.go.com/US/bmw-recalls-million-vehicles-fire-...
  - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
    You made a claim, not me. I just said your argument is flawed. I didn't say you're wrong - I believe you're probably right. But you didn't actually provide any data for your claim. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/222/Shifting-of-the-Burden-of-Proof https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFalla...
    - 7y ago

greglindahl 7y ago

Here's an article from last April about thousands of non-crash car fires in a population of 6 million cars: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47782247 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47782247