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Minister for Foreign Affairs of Ukraine: https://twitter.com/VPrystaiko/status/1199725757762850819 https://twitter.com/VPrystaiko/status/1199725757762850819 >I

by mzs 7y ago

Minister for Foreign Affairs of Ukraine: https://twitter.com/VPrystaiko/status/1199725757762850819 https://twitter.com/VPrystaiko/status/1199725757762850819 >IPhones are great products. Seriously, though, @Apple, please, please, stick to high-tech and entertainment. Global politics is not your strong side. #CrimeaIsUkraine

nickpeterson 7y ago
Russia has the power to take a portion of territory and they did. The means through which they did it is considered wrong, but it doesn't change the reality of who controls the area. Maps of political borders are maps of influence, not maps of ideals. I'll also note that thoughts and prayers are not terribly useful in these situations. Force responds to force, nothing else. I expect Russia to continue doing these sorts of things while the world frets.
- jevgeni 7y ago
  That is legally not true.
  - nickpeterson 7y ago
    I didn't say anything about legality.
  - lawnchair_larry 7y ago
    Legally not true in which jurisdiction?
  - mensetmanusman 7y ago
    Law is a subset of violent power.
- FpUser 7y ago
  I expect Russia to continue doing these sorts of things while the world frets. I think the situation with Crimea is unique as there is a set of multiple historical, racial, political etc. etc. factors not present anywhere else. What else could Russia possibly annex without triggering major war and world mayhem?
  - xenospn 7y ago
    Northern Georgia.
    - FpUser 7y ago
      Missed that one. It is a mess in there. But said mess did already happen and I was talking about future. Russia had definitely taken advantage of the situation where 2 regions wanted to separate. The end outlook is not encouraging. I am curious here about one thing here. Government leaders supposed to be smart people. Where did Saakashvili (Georgian president at the time) loose his last 2 brain cells before allowing military attack on stationed Russian peacekeepers. Try to imagine Syrian soldiers attacking US military and see what happens.
      - renjimen 7y ago
        I saw a documentary where the border in Georgia was slowly creeping overnight. Like, they literally move the fence up when it's dark. So, possibly still on-going.
  - brutt 7y ago
    Alaska maybe. :-/
    - urda 7y ago
      So Russia would annex a portion of the US and not trigger war or any conflict? Yeah, no that's highly unlikely.
      - brutt 7y ago
        People of Alaska will declare independence (with little help of Russian tourists, journalists, and some honest news). This will not trigger a war, right? Independent Democratic People Republic of Alaska will join Russian Federation next day after that. Job is done.
jrockway 7y ago
I think it's valuable for Apple to have a mapping product, and having that product invites governments to interfere. I think it's safe to say you're politically neutral when you just do what governments tell you to do. Two governments not agreeing with each other is a problem for them to work out amongst themselves. Apple just has to maintain a system that allows them to stay in compliance with every government's view at once, and appear to be doing that. (I can type the Hong Kong flag on my iPhone, after all.) That's not politics, that's just self-preservation. I think what people really want are for corporations to advocate for the political views that they happen to agree with. I was like that up until the whole NBA/China, Apple/China, and Blizzard/China controversy. After being deeply upset for a while, I came to terms with the fact that Fortune 500 companies are not going to be the guiding force towards a better world. They are just going to play basketball or make phones or make computer games. And I'm OK with that. Not thrilled, but I accept it.
sukilot 7y ago
That's cheap propaganda with fake casual tone. Apple has to do something with Crimea on the map, and anything they choose is global politics. Or is MFA of Ukraine asking Apple to stop mapping Crimea completely?
mklarmann 7y ago
The situation is not that simple. There is a Swiss historian discussing the case in great detail. For anyone who feels that something is odd about this - have a look. I am sorry it is in German so... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sMfNmx0wKo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sMfNmx0wKo

by mzs 7y ago

nickpeterson 7y ago

Russia has the power to take a portion of territory and they did. The means through which they did it is considered wrong, but it doesn't change the reality of who controls the area. Maps of political borders are maps of influence, not maps of ideals. I'll also note that thoughts and prayers are not terribly useful in these situations. Force responds to force, nothing else. I expect Russia to continue doing these sorts of things while the world frets.

jevgeni 7y ago
That is legally not true.
- nickpeterson 7y ago
  I didn't say anything about legality.
- lawnchair_larry 7y ago
  Legally not true in which jurisdiction?
- mensetmanusman 7y ago
  Law is a subset of violent power.
FpUser 7y ago
I expect Russia to continue doing these sorts of things while the world frets. I think the situation with Crimea is unique as there is a set of multiple historical, racial, political etc. etc. factors not present anywhere else. What else could Russia possibly annex without triggering major war and world mayhem?
- xenospn 7y ago
  Northern Georgia.
  - FpUser 7y ago
    Missed that one. It is a mess in there. But said mess did already happen and I was talking about future. Russia had definitely taken advantage of the situation where 2 regions wanted to separate. The end outlook is not encouraging. I am curious here about one thing here. Government leaders supposed to be smart people. Where did Saakashvili (Georgian president at the time) loose his last 2 brain cells before allowing military attack on stationed Russian peacekeepers. Try to imagine Syrian soldiers attacking US military and see what happens.
    - renjimen 7y ago
      I saw a documentary where the border in Georgia was slowly creeping overnight. Like, they literally move the fence up when it's dark. So, possibly still on-going.
- brutt 7y ago
  Alaska maybe. :-/
  - urda 7y ago
    So Russia would annex a portion of the US and not trigger war or any conflict? Yeah, no that's highly unlikely.
    - brutt 7y ago
      People of Alaska will declare independence (with little help of Russian tourists, journalists, and some honest news). This will not trigger a war, right? Independent Democratic People Republic of Alaska will join Russian Federation next day after that. Job is done.

jrockway 7y ago

I think it's valuable for Apple to have a mapping product, and having that product invites governments to interfere. I think it's safe to say you're politically neutral when you just do what governments tell you to do. Two governments not agreeing with each other is a problem for them to work out amongst themselves. Apple just has to maintain a system that allows them to stay in compliance with every government's view at once, and appear to be doing that. (I can type the Hong Kong flag on my iPhone, after all.) That's not politics, that's just self-preservation. I think what people really want are for corporations to advocate for the political views that they happen to agree with. I was like that up until the whole NBA/China, Apple/China, and Blizzard/China controversy. After being deeply upset for a while, I came to terms with the fact that Fortune 500 companies are not going to be the guiding force towards a better world. They are just going to play basketball or make phones or make computer games. And I'm OK with that. Not thrilled, but I accept it.

sukilot 7y ago

That's cheap propaganda with fake casual tone. Apple has to do something with Crimea on the map, and anything they choose is global politics. Or is MFA of Ukraine asking Apple to stop mapping Crimea completely?

mklarmann 7y ago

The situation is not that simple. There is a Swiss historian discussing the case in great detail. For anyone who feels that something is odd about this - have a look. I am sorry it is in German so... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sMfNmx0wKo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sMfNmx0wKo