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By that logic, all areas of Russia where the non-Russian ethnicity is dominant (of which there are a lot) should all be written out in their respective language

By that logic, all areas of Russia where the non-Russian ethnicity is dominant (of which there are a lot) should all be written out in their respective languages. Also, the argument "well it was like that since <some time t>" does not really have traction. Why choose an arbitrary time point? Usually, these arguments fall apart when you suggest to look at <t - dt>.

cpursley 7y ago
In many Russian territories, they are in fact. You'll see multi lingual signs and that kind of stuff. I was in Komi Republic this time last year and many signs had both Komi (a Fino language) and Russian, despite a very insignificant number of living speakers.
- jevgeni 7y ago
  That's not the argument tho, is it? I think Russian speakers in Ukraine were pretty comfortable themselves.
  - pashky 7y ago
    No, not in Crimea. True hate for all things Ukrainian was real there, especially in older folks. Many older generations never learned the language anyway and feeling of being heavily abused by politicians in Kyiv didn’t help the cause either. This was very different from for example Baltic states.
    - jevgeni 7y ago
      Wait wait wait, I grew up in the Baltics as a Russian speaker. What you go through as such there (especially in Latvia and Estonia) is actual discrimination. As in: some people started to change their names to hide their Russian origins. What you have in Ukraine in comparison is a gentle reminder to please at some point learn the language of your country.
    - keymone 7y ago
      Crimea has autonomy since forever and local parliament and government. Most schools in Crimea are russian speaking. This talk of abuse is just propaganda.
    - trymas 7y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification To this day in Baltic states there are places where people were moved in by Soviet Union and even today most of the people hardly speak the language of the country they live in. Because of this they mostly watch Russian national tv and think that Soviet Union was the best place in the world. The Baltics are still very vurnerable to Russian propaganda, for Ukraine it's even harder to escape propaganda, because of Slavic roots and similar languages. Edit: If there's a majority of former Soviet nationals thinking that they are somehow "abused" by living in the independent Baltic state, so do you think father putin should save them by occupying the country? Or should those people need to buy one way ticket to their motherland and never come back?
excursionist 7y ago
> By that logic, all areas of Russia where the non-Russian ethnicity is dominant (of which there are a lot) should all be written out in their respective languages. Why not? Use the most common local language as well as Russian.
- jevgeni 7y ago
  Of course! But if you look at the map of Russia it's mostly only English and Russian.
  - excursionist 7y ago
    I'm talking about local street signs and documents having the local language + official federal language. The languages used on Google maps just seems to default to your local language + the country official language. That's just the technical aspect of how Google maps works - you can change the language in settings. If you look at Quebec from English-speaking Canada or US you will mostly see English and no French.
knolax 7y ago
But concepts like "Russian" and "Ukrainian" are time period specific. I think GP is saying that the area has been Russian-majority every since when the distinction between Russian and Ukrainian came into existence.
- jevgeni 7y ago
  I think Crimean Tatars might disagree.
  - vogre 7y ago
    Native Americans or Basques or Serbs in Kosovo can disagree with some of western politics, but who do really care?
    - jevgeni 7y ago
      Because if somebody does a bad thing, then everybody can do it, right! /s
- brutt 7y ago
  Distinction between Russians and Ukrainians started after rename of (Kievan) Russia into Ukraine in 1908, when delegates from whole Russia Empire made decision to change name, to move away from Moscow. After Soviet Revolution, Ukrainians started Great Ukrainization, with it peak in 1929. At it peak, 81 millions of Ukrainians (Russians) and 77 millions of Russians (Russish) were counted in 1926. This was perceived as great threat to Soviet Union, because Ukrainians wanted their own, independent from Moscow, country. To tame Ukrainians, genocide was started, known as Holodomor, which killed 7 millions of adults (accepted by RF) and 23 millions of children (not accepted by RF) in 1932-1934, which are hidden in losses in WWW2, which are raised from 12 millions to 42 millions. Also, 20 millions of Ukrainians were written as Russians at Kuban and Crimea, so number of Russians jumped from 77 millions to 97 millions. So, at next people count, 97 millions of Russians and 29 millions of Ukrainians were counted. Problem solved. To tame Ukraine furthers, Ukrainian language was forbidden to use, and Ukrainian elite is (still) killed regularly.

cpursley 7y ago

In many Russian territories, they are in fact. You'll see multi lingual signs and that kind of stuff. I was in Komi Republic this time last year and many signs had both Komi (a Fino language) and Russian, despite a very insignificant number of living speakers.

jevgeni 7y ago
That's not the argument tho, is it? I think Russian speakers in Ukraine were pretty comfortable themselves.
- pashky 7y ago
  No, not in Crimea. True hate for all things Ukrainian was real there, especially in older folks. Many older generations never learned the language anyway and feeling of being heavily abused by politicians in Kyiv didn’t help the cause either. This was very different from for example Baltic states.
  - jevgeni 7y ago
    Wait wait wait, I grew up in the Baltics as a Russian speaker. What you go through as such there (especially in Latvia and Estonia) is actual discrimination. As in: some people started to change their names to hide their Russian origins. What you have in Ukraine in comparison is a gentle reminder to please at some point learn the language of your country.
  - keymone 7y ago
    Crimea has autonomy since forever and local parliament and government. Most schools in Crimea are russian speaking. This talk of abuse is just propaganda.
  - trymas 7y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification To this day in Baltic states there are places where people were moved in by Soviet Union and even today most of the people hardly speak the language of the country they live in. Because of this they mostly watch Russian national tv and think that Soviet Union was the best place in the world. The Baltics are still very vurnerable to Russian propaganda, for Ukraine it's even harder to escape propaganda, because of Slavic roots and similar languages. Edit: If there's a majority of former Soviet nationals thinking that they are somehow "abused" by living in the independent Baltic state, so do you think father putin should save them by occupying the country? Or should those people need to buy one way ticket to their motherland and never come back?

excursionist 7y ago

> By that logic, all areas of Russia where the non-Russian ethnicity is dominant (of which there are a lot) should all be written out in their respective languages. Why not? Use the most common local language as well as Russian.

jevgeni 7y ago
Of course! But if you look at the map of Russia it's mostly only English and Russian.
- excursionist 7y ago
  I'm talking about local street signs and documents having the local language + official federal language. The languages used on Google maps just seems to default to your local language + the country official language. That's just the technical aspect of how Google maps works - you can change the language in settings. If you look at Quebec from English-speaking Canada or US you will mostly see English and no French.

knolax 7y ago

But concepts like "Russian" and "Ukrainian" are time period specific. I think GP is saying that the area has been Russian-majority every since when the distinction between Russian and Ukrainian came into existence.

jevgeni 7y ago
I think Crimean Tatars might disagree.
- vogre 7y ago
  Native Americans or Basques or Serbs in Kosovo can disagree with some of western politics, but who do really care?
  - jevgeni 7y ago
    Because if somebody does a bad thing, then everybody can do it, right! /s
brutt 7y ago
Distinction between Russians and Ukrainians started after rename of (Kievan) Russia into Ukraine in 1908, when delegates from whole Russia Empire made decision to change name, to move away from Moscow. After Soviet Revolution, Ukrainians started Great Ukrainization, with it peak in 1929. At it peak, 81 millions of Ukrainians (Russians) and 77 millions of Russians (Russish) were counted in 1926. This was perceived as great threat to Soviet Union, because Ukrainians wanted their own, independent from Moscow, country. To tame Ukrainians, genocide was started, known as Holodomor, which killed 7 millions of adults (accepted by RF) and 23 millions of children (not accepted by RF) in 1932-1934, which are hidden in losses in WWW2, which are raised from 12 millions to 42 millions. Also, 20 millions of Ukrainians were written as Russians at Kuban and Crimea, so number of Russians jumped from 77 millions to 97 millions. So, at next people count, 97 millions of Russians and 29 millions of Ukrainians were counted. Problem solved. To tame Ukraine furthers, Ukrainian language was forbidden to use, and Ukrainian elite is (still) killed regularly.