7 ms·

ICE arrests 90 more students at fake university in Michigan

41 points by ericzawo 7y ago

Aperocky 7y ago
So the US homeland of Security set up a fake university, put it in the official accreditation website, and then arrest international students when they apply and join? WTH?
- Kailou 7y ago
  Yeah i think i'm reading that wrong, but it seems like the students are attempting to study in the country and applying to University through legal means, then getting deported as it's a fake university. I'm clearly missing something here.
  - rufus_3 7y ago
    The "students" were enrolling in a university that had "had no teachers, classes, or educational services" as a means to game the F-1 visa program. Their goal was to falsely claim they were enrolled in education in order to avoid deportation.
    - jka 7y ago
      It's not particularly clear at least from the website (which initially looks fairly legitimate, and has a .edu domain name) that there were no classes, and it does state that they offer F-1 visas. It's possible that some of the students had transferred from other educational institutions and did indeed want to remain in the U.S. - it's a huge matter of prestige and hope for some families to send their children to the U.S. for education. I'm sure there's some aspect of gaming going on with educational visas; what I'm not convinced about is whether setting up elaborate (and likely expensive) schemes like this -- which end up seeming a lot like entrapment, and risk criminalizing and punishing vulnerable individuals -- is the best way to approach handling the problem.
    - justinclift 7y ago
      The article should probably have lead with that. ;) This bit though, seems kind of sick: > ... in some cases, students who transferred out from the University of Farmington after realizing they didn't have classes on-site, were still arrested. Sounds like they went after students who realised it was fake then transferred to a real Uni too. That's not good.
      - olliej 7y ago
        Presumably because by deporting them it becomes harder for the victims to get back the money they were defrauded out of.
    - yumraj 7y ago
      That doesn't seem correct. Moreover a student has no means to determine if a University has no teachers, other than verifying relevant Government databases. According to the article: Department of Homeland Security had said on its website that the university was legitimate. An accreditation agency that was working with the U.S. on its sting operation also listed the university as legitimate.
    - olliej 7y ago
      No, the students wanted to go to a US university - a reasonable thing to do, because US degrees are often more valuable than local ones. So they went to the accreditation agency to get a list of universities to apply to. They applied to those universities. They got accepted by the fraudulent university. The got their visas - after following all of the rules that they were meant to. They arrived in the country. They paid their fees to the university. Once ICE got the money, they arrested all the victims of this fraud, and deported them so that it would become essentially impossible to get back the money ICE fraudulently stole from them. What part of this is not * fraud? * entrapment * theft Especially now that the victims will have to check the “I have been deported from the US” box forever, and that alone is grounds to be rejected entry. So even if they do get the money ICE stole back, they are unlikely to ever be able to get a job for an American owned company, or that requires travel to America. I want you to go through these steps and tell me which step taken by the victims was wrong, because you seem to be saying that the victims were committing fraud and it seems you must know something not in the article.
    - Shorel 7y ago
      That's a valid argument, if it can be proven. But, how could the students find that out before travelling and visiting the University? It seems to me that many caught were acting on good faith.
- theandrewbailey 7y ago
  > An accreditation agency that was working with the U.S. on its sting operation also listed the university as legitimate. Looks like that agency shouldn't be trusted anymore. Name and shame.
- rasz 7y ago
  "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    But is there any evidence that they were told this before immigrating? According to the article, some of the students arrested are students who transferred to other, legitimate universities once they found out there were no classes.
anderber 7y ago
This can't be the best use of resources or money in our gov...
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  You can't argue that its not getting results, though.
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    I'm confused at how it's getting results. It seems that it is attracting students over from foreign countries then arresting them. Or are these students people who were already in the US illegally?
    - Fjolsvith 7y ago
      Instead of DHS having to track down all these people in the US without visas, they tricked them to come get arrested. What did that cost, a website?
      - jjeaff 7y ago
        That doesn't appear to be what happened. These students obtained entry to the US due to their acceptance to the college and then immigrated.
- abduhl 7y ago
  The article says that they received millions in tuition payments from these students so it sounds likely the program is at least partially self funding. In which case, this is a great use of government money.
  - olliej 7y ago
    Yes, it turns out theft by the government is very profitable when the government chooses not to charge itself with theft.
zb1plus 7y ago
Our tax dollars at work... It sickens me that the Federal Government is allowed to waste money on this type of things while there are people dying from a lack of access to insulin here in the the USA becasuse of the cost. Why not simply let people come and work here if they so choice and use the taxes we collect to support our failing education and social services system. #AbolishICE
- rufus_3 7y ago
  Should American workers be happy to "simply let people come and work here" when their wages have been stagnant for decades? https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us...
  - amanaplanacanal 7y ago
    I dunno. We have so many things that are holding down wages right now, including globalization, automation, and changes to tax laws which make it easier for profits to go to capital instead of labor. Do we actually have good evidence that immigration has much of an effect?
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      https://www.npr.org/2017/08/04/541321716/fact-check-have-low-skilled-immigrants-taken-american-jobs https://www.npr.org/2017/08/04/541321716/fact-check-have-low... https://www.nap.edu/read/23550/chapter/2 https://www.nap.edu/read/23550/chapter/2
- Jamwinner 7y ago
  Border security is not casual racism. Nobody takes seriously a notion to stop having borders in a nation literally defined by them. While many actions of the current system are reprehensible, the response is reform, or even a clean-sheet design. But loss of sovergnity is not on the table.
  - 7y ago
jka 7y ago
There's more information on the background of the university on Wikipedia[0], and also archived copies of their website and admissions policy on the Internet Archive[1]. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Farmington https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Farmington [1] - https://web.archive.org/web/20170302161735/http://universityoffarmington.edu/admissions.html https://web.archive.org/web/20170302161735/http://university...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
pryffwyd 7y ago
If such fake universities exist, why aren't these resources being spent to identity and shutter them instead? If they don't, why manufacture this elaborate heist instead of deporting the students in the first place when their visa ran out? Wouldn't it be more cost effective to just pore through immigration records and do some on-site checks to find a "real fake university" than to create one?
- lm28469 7y ago
  > but since the University of Farmington was later revealed to be a creation of federal agents
diebeforei485 7y ago
Lots of info in this interview: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/takeaway/segments/why-department-homeland-security-business-setting-fake-universities https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/takeaway/segments/why-d... Because a very small % of folks are prone to fraudulent behavior, this is actually a effective way to root it out.
lm28469 7y ago
> the University of Farmington was later revealed to be a creation of federal agents > which cost about $12,000 on average in tuition and fees per year. > The fake university is believed to have collected millions of dollars from the unsuspecting students. Between that and half of the current US gov being corrupt to an unprecedented level I wonder were all the "A well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free State" guys are. This is 1970s eastern europe level of power abuse.
- fivethr33 7y ago
  The "well regulate militia" loves and supports Trump.
- Accujack 7y ago
  I'm sure all the collected tuition was immediatedly deposited into government coffers, and none of it went home with ICE agents. After all, doesn't US immigration law allow agents to confiscate anything they like from people illegally in the US, just like they do from citizens? /s ICE and TSA are where people who are too corrupt or too lazy to actually become police officers... or who can't pass a psychological exam to do so.
yumraj 7y ago
Isn't this entrapment? [0] If so, any self-respecting judge should have allowed the students to stay or at least refund their money back plus some more... [0] https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/entrapment-basics-33987.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/entrapment-basics-33...
pkaye 7y ago
I feel like they should have "safe harbor" provision where if student report fake universities on first being aware, they should be able to safely transfer to another university.

41 points by ericzawo 7y ago

So the US homeland of Security set up a fake university, put it in the official accreditation website, and then arrest international students when they apply and join? WTH?

Kailou 7y ago
Yeah i think i'm reading that wrong, but it seems like the students are attempting to study in the country and applying to University through legal means, then getting deported as it's a fake university. I'm clearly missing something here.
- rufus_3 7y ago
  The "students" were enrolling in a university that had "had no teachers, classes, or educational services" as a means to game the F-1 visa program. Their goal was to falsely claim they were enrolled in education in order to avoid deportation.
  - jka 7y ago
    It's not particularly clear at least from the website (which initially looks fairly legitimate, and has a .edu domain name) that there were no classes, and it does state that they offer F-1 visas. It's possible that some of the students had transferred from other educational institutions and did indeed want to remain in the U.S. - it's a huge matter of prestige and hope for some families to send their children to the U.S. for education. I'm sure there's some aspect of gaming going on with educational visas; what I'm not convinced about is whether setting up elaborate (and likely expensive) schemes like this -- which end up seeming a lot like entrapment, and risk criminalizing and punishing vulnerable individuals -- is the best way to approach handling the problem.
  - justinclift 7y ago
    The article should probably have lead with that. ;) This bit though, seems kind of sick: > ... in some cases, students who transferred out from the University of Farmington after realizing they didn't have classes on-site, were still arrested. Sounds like they went after students who realised it was fake then transferred to a real Uni too. That's not good.
    - olliej 7y ago
      Presumably because by deporting them it becomes harder for the victims to get back the money they were defrauded out of.
  - yumraj 7y ago
    That doesn't seem correct. Moreover a student has no means to determine if a University has no teachers, other than verifying relevant Government databases. According to the article: Department of Homeland Security had said on its website that the university was legitimate. An accreditation agency that was working with the U.S. on its sting operation also listed the university as legitimate.
  - olliej 7y ago
    No, the students wanted to go to a US university - a reasonable thing to do, because US degrees are often more valuable than local ones. So they went to the accreditation agency to get a list of universities to apply to. They applied to those universities. They got accepted by the fraudulent university. The got their visas - after following all of the rules that they were meant to. They arrived in the country. They paid their fees to the university. Once ICE got the money, they arrested all the victims of this fraud, and deported them so that it would become essentially impossible to get back the money ICE fraudulently stole from them. What part of this is not * fraud? * entrapment * theft Especially now that the victims will have to check the “I have been deported from the US” box forever, and that alone is grounds to be rejected entry. So even if they do get the money ICE stole back, they are unlikely to ever be able to get a job for an American owned company, or that requires travel to America. I want you to go through these steps and tell me which step taken by the victims was wrong, because you seem to be saying that the victims were committing fraud and it seems you must know something not in the article.
  - Shorel 7y ago
    That's a valid argument, if it can be proven. But, how could the students find that out before travelling and visiting the University? It seems to me that many caught were acting on good faith.
theandrewbailey 7y ago
> An accreditation agency that was working with the U.S. on its sting operation also listed the university as legitimate. Looks like that agency shouldn't be trusted anymore. Name and shame.
rasz 7y ago
"While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."
- jjeaff 7y ago
  But is there any evidence that they were told this before immigrating? According to the article, some of the students arrested are students who transferred to other, legitimate universities once they found out there were no classes.

anderber 7y ago

This can't be the best use of resources or money in our gov...

Fjolsvith 7y ago
You can't argue that its not getting results, though.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  I'm confused at how it's getting results. It seems that it is attracting students over from foreign countries then arresting them. Or are these students people who were already in the US illegally?
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    Instead of DHS having to track down all these people in the US without visas, they tricked them to come get arrested. What did that cost, a website?
    - jjeaff 7y ago
      That doesn't appear to be what happened. These students obtained entry to the US due to their acceptance to the college and then immigrated.
abduhl 7y ago
The article says that they received millions in tuition payments from these students so it sounds likely the program is at least partially self funding. In which case, this is a great use of government money.
- olliej 7y ago
  Yes, it turns out theft by the government is very profitable when the government chooses not to charge itself with theft.

zb1plus 7y ago

Our tax dollars at work... It sickens me that the Federal Government is allowed to waste money on this type of things while there are people dying from a lack of access to insulin here in the the USA becasuse of the cost. Why not simply let people come and work here if they so choice and use the taxes we collect to support our failing education and social services system. #AbolishICE

rufus_3 7y ago
Should American workers be happy to "simply let people come and work here" when their wages have been stagnant for decades? https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us...
- amanaplanacanal 7y ago
  I dunno. We have so many things that are holding down wages right now, including globalization, automation, and changes to tax laws which make it easier for profits to go to capital instead of labor. Do we actually have good evidence that immigration has much of an effect?
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    https://www.npr.org/2017/08/04/541321716/fact-check-have-low-skilled-immigrants-taken-american-jobs https://www.npr.org/2017/08/04/541321716/fact-check-have-low... https://www.nap.edu/read/23550/chapter/2 https://www.nap.edu/read/23550/chapter/2
Jamwinner 7y ago
Border security is not casual racism. Nobody takes seriously a notion to stop having borders in a nation literally defined by them. While many actions of the current system are reprehensible, the response is reform, or even a clean-sheet design. But loss of sovergnity is not on the table.
- 7y ago

jka 7y ago

There's more information on the background of the university on Wikipedia[0], and also archived copies of their website and admissions policy on the Internet Archive[1]. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Farmington https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Farmington [1] - https://web.archive.org/web/20170302161735/http://universityoffarmington.edu/admissions.html https://web.archive.org/web/20170302161735/http://university...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

pryffwyd 7y ago

If such fake universities exist, why aren't these resources being spent to identity and shutter them instead? If they don't, why manufacture this elaborate heist instead of deporting the students in the first place when their visa ran out? Wouldn't it be more cost effective to just pore through immigration records and do some on-site checks to find a "real fake university" than to create one?

lm28469 7y ago
> but since the University of Farmington was later revealed to be a creation of federal agents

diebeforei485 7y ago

Lots of info in this interview: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/takeaway/segments/why-department-homeland-security-business-setting-fake-universities https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/takeaway/segments/why-d... Because a very small % of folks are prone to fraudulent behavior, this is actually a effective way to root it out.

lm28469 7y ago

> the University of Farmington was later revealed to be a creation of federal agents > which cost about $12,000 on average in tuition and fees per year. > The fake university is believed to have collected millions of dollars from the unsuspecting students. Between that and half of the current US gov being corrupt to an unprecedented level I wonder were all the "A well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free State" guys are. This is 1970s eastern europe level of power abuse.

fivethr33 7y ago
The "well regulate militia" loves and supports Trump.
Accujack 7y ago
I'm sure all the collected tuition was immediatedly deposited into government coffers, and none of it went home with ICE agents. After all, doesn't US immigration law allow agents to confiscate anything they like from people illegally in the US, just like they do from citizens? /s ICE and TSA are where people who are too corrupt or too lazy to actually become police officers... or who can't pass a psychological exam to do so.

yumraj 7y ago

Isn't this entrapment? [0] If so, any self-respecting judge should have allowed the students to stay or at least refund their money back plus some more... [0] https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/entrapment-basics-33987.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/entrapment-basics-33...

pkaye 7y ago

I feel like they should have "safe harbor" provision where if student report fake universities on first being aware, they should be able to safely transfer to another university.