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I like paying taxes. I get "free" healthcare and education and so many other things here in Sweden that wouldn't be possible without taxes. Simply not having to

I like paying taxes. I get "free" healthcare and education and so many other things here in Sweden that wouldn't be possible without taxes. Simply not having to ever think about the financials of those things is worth a good 5% taxes if you ask me. I wouldn't want to pay any less in taxes if it meant taking any of that away, but I would happily pitch in more if each additional krona would do as much or more than the one before it.

saiya-jin 7y ago
Yeah that's all nice and shiny, but imagine if those taxes were simply stolen by corrupt government. Your mom would die from simple appendectomy infection because hospitals don't have enough money to do things properly. Plus if you got fired, you would have next to 0 support from the state, and either you have some savings you just eat through or your kids starve. And on top of that, any simple bureaucracy you want to do would require bribes left and right just to get things done that in normal society are done efficiently and almost effortlessly. Police would be corrupt too and chasing any dissent more than criminals. Roads you drive on would be semi-useless and getting worse. Etc... In that situation, you know your tax money is >90% spend just to enrich somebody, probably also helping mafia, you would have a different perspective. I don't claim I have a solution. I don't. I left my east/central European home that is nowhere as bad as failed state of Russia, but even with that corruption is still pretty bad, a-holes stealing from everybody are often well known, sometimes proper celebrities laughing off their supercars. I know I don't want to raise my kids in such a society, no matter how close to my heart it is and how easy life I had back home with my qualifications and savings. I know I wouldn't change anything back home and just be frustrated or apathetic, just like all my peers that stayed at home. Or I would get a sniper rifle and take those corrupt people down, without much remorse (actually I am very surprised not a single unbalanced person ever done that, anywhere). So, I moved and don't plan to come back in productive age.
- keymone 7y ago
  > imagine if those taxes were simply stolen by corrupt government of course effective taxation systems always have implicit requirement of no or low corruption. what's the point of imagining the thing you're saying? imagine a giant asteroid hit your home - how is anything you're doing in your life relevant?
  - saiya-jin 7y ago
    The point is, people give up on thinking about greater societal good and it becomes everybody for themselves. Paying taxes is basically charity for rest of population of given state, where you don't get anything immediately back, but hope for overall well being. I don't think people in the west understand how dysfunctional society can be if corruption is everywhere. If somebody from Sweden states how he is happy about being taxed because he/she sees the results, thats great. It doesn't mean anything for place like Russia where you simply don't see much coming back to you from state, but you very clearly see how some corrupt / well connected / mafia are getting back most of it.
c72a7fd0 7y ago
[ NOTE: It takes hours and days to communicate here because people do not like my opinions -- so "Hacker News" (lol) throttles me so I cannot really respond to you or anyone in reasonable time. ] Lol. No you do not like paying taxes; that's your Stockholm syndrome or sunk cost fallacy (variant of it) talking. It's not free; it's crazy expensive and goes to a lot of crazy and/or evil b.s. you have no interest in or control over. I was born in Norway, but left the country because of high taxes and govt imposed fees and "regulations". I now only pay simple 15% fixed no matter how much I earn (corp + dividend setup) and have private health insurance++. This enabled me to start a family and buy a house after years of struggle, confusion (forskuddsskatt?? wtf.) and trouble (security and fire course needed to start a simple IT freelance business?? wtf.) back home. My baby girl was born at a private hospital here; very reasonable and good. After 2.5 - 3 years I'm making 6 figures now and growing fast. Back in Norway I was miserable, passive and would still have been miserable if I thought "taxes are good for me". I'm not alone with this: https://www.tv2.no/v/1517820/ https://www.tv2.no/v/1517820/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EF39ZP-7Fo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EF39ZP-7Fo ..this wonderful, resourceful woman left for Bali after decades of harassment from the govt with their "nice" services. No thanks; I don't need any of it.
- patrickaljord 7y ago
  Where did migrate to?
- MrBuddyCasino 7y ago
  IDK why this got downvoted. State spending and economic growth are inversely proportional. The bigger the government, the less economic growth there is.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    Citation / data requested. This is a bald assertion and there are a tremendous amount of confounding factors. Globally, the fastest growing GDPs are associated with some of the weakest economies (Lybia, in 2018, for what it's worth). GDP growth is highly dependent on present GDP/capita (e.g., average income) levels. If you're starting high, you'll have little growth. Within a given country, given fiscal stimulus during recessions, you'll see increased government spending as a share of GDP precisely when GDP is lowest. Not because high government spending as a share of GDP causes reduced growth, but because it is a direct response to that growth. If you'd want to make a supportable claim, you'd have to account for at least these, and quite probably other factors. The countries with stable, high per-capita, and generally growing GDP have not only a large share of government spending as a share of GDP, but numerous other factors: stable institutions, low corruption, generally a membership within the NATO or a similar alliance (ASEAN, ANZAC), which translates to protected trade routes and access to global oil shipments (a huge factor in GDP), and more. Which may account for some of the reception shown to answers to complex problems which are clear, simple, and wrong.
refurb 7y ago
The OP is talking about a scenario where the tax money you pay is stolen. Would you feel the same way in that case?
burundi_coffee 7y ago
You get all those things regardless of whether you pay taxes or not

saiya-jin 7y ago

Yeah that's all nice and shiny, but imagine if those taxes were simply stolen by corrupt government. Your mom would die from simple appendectomy infection because hospitals don't have enough money to do things properly. Plus if you got fired, you would have next to 0 support from the state, and either you have some savings you just eat through or your kids starve. And on top of that, any simple bureaucracy you want to do would require bribes left and right just to get things done that in normal society are done efficiently and almost effortlessly. Police would be corrupt too and chasing any dissent more than criminals. Roads you drive on would be semi-useless and getting worse. Etc... In that situation, you know your tax money is >90% spend just to enrich somebody, probably also helping mafia, you would have a different perspective. I don't claim I have a solution. I don't. I left my east/central European home that is nowhere as bad as failed state of Russia, but even with that corruption is still pretty bad, a-holes stealing from everybody are often well known, sometimes proper celebrities laughing off their supercars. I know I don't want to raise my kids in such a society, no matter how close to my heart it is and how easy life I had back home with my qualifications and savings. I know I wouldn't change anything back home and just be frustrated or apathetic, just like all my peers that stayed at home. Or I would get a sniper rifle and take those corrupt people down, without much remorse (actually I am very surprised not a single unbalanced person ever done that, anywhere). So, I moved and don't plan to come back in productive age.

keymone 7y ago
> imagine if those taxes were simply stolen by corrupt government of course effective taxation systems always have implicit requirement of no or low corruption. what's the point of imagining the thing you're saying? imagine a giant asteroid hit your home - how is anything you're doing in your life relevant?
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  The point is, people give up on thinking about greater societal good and it becomes everybody for themselves. Paying taxes is basically charity for rest of population of given state, where you don't get anything immediately back, but hope for overall well being. I don't think people in the west understand how dysfunctional society can be if corruption is everywhere. If somebody from Sweden states how he is happy about being taxed because he/she sees the results, thats great. It doesn't mean anything for place like Russia where you simply don't see much coming back to you from state, but you very clearly see how some corrupt / well connected / mafia are getting back most of it.

c72a7fd0 7y ago

[ NOTE: It takes hours and days to communicate here because people do not like my opinions -- so "Hacker News" (lol) throttles me so I cannot really respond to you or anyone in reasonable time. ] Lol. No you do not like paying taxes; that's your Stockholm syndrome or sunk cost fallacy (variant of it) talking. It's not free; it's crazy expensive and goes to a lot of crazy and/or evil b.s. you have no interest in or control over. I was born in Norway, but left the country because of high taxes and govt imposed fees and "regulations". I now only pay simple 15% fixed no matter how much I earn (corp + dividend setup) and have private health insurance++. This enabled me to start a family and buy a house after years of struggle, confusion (forskuddsskatt?? wtf.) and trouble (security and fire course needed to start a simple IT freelance business?? wtf.) back home. My baby girl was born at a private hospital here; very reasonable and good. After 2.5 - 3 years I'm making 6 figures now and growing fast. Back in Norway I was miserable, passive and would still have been miserable if I thought "taxes are good for me". I'm not alone with this: https://www.tv2.no/v/1517820/ https://www.tv2.no/v/1517820/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EF39ZP-7Fo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EF39ZP-7Fo ..this wonderful, resourceful woman left for Bali after decades of harassment from the govt with their "nice" services. No thanks; I don't need any of it.

patrickaljord 7y ago
Where did migrate to?
MrBuddyCasino 7y ago
IDK why this got downvoted. State spending and economic growth are inversely proportional. The bigger the government, the less economic growth there is.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Citation / data requested. This is a bald assertion and there are a tremendous amount of confounding factors. Globally, the fastest growing GDPs are associated with some of the weakest economies (Lybia, in 2018, for what it's worth). GDP growth is highly dependent on present GDP/capita (e.g., average income) levels. If you're starting high, you'll have little growth. Within a given country, given fiscal stimulus during recessions, you'll see increased government spending as a share of GDP precisely when GDP is lowest. Not because high government spending as a share of GDP causes reduced growth, but because it is a direct response to that growth. If you'd want to make a supportable claim, you'd have to account for at least these, and quite probably other factors. The countries with stable, high per-capita, and generally growing GDP have not only a large share of government spending as a share of GDP, but numerous other factors: stable institutions, low corruption, generally a membership within the NATO or a similar alliance (ASEAN, ANZAC), which translates to protected trade routes and access to global oil shipments (a huge factor in GDP), and more. Which may account for some of the reception shown to answers to complex problems which are clear, simple, and wrong.

refurb 7y ago

The OP is talking about a scenario where the tax money you pay is stolen. Would you feel the same way in that case?

burundi_coffee 7y ago

You get all those things regardless of whether you pay taxes or not