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apps shouldn't have the ability to refuse to work without your data I understand this case, but GP suggests to fake data for all apps. There are apps which are

apps shouldn't have the ability to refuse to work without your data I understand this case, but GP suggests to fake data for all apps. There are apps which are useless without location data. Or worse, you definitely wouldn't want to [accidentally] fake data for some apps, like a "SOS button" app.

bpfrh 7y ago
That's why you would enable GPS for that app.
Jonnax 7y ago
Sure. But the choice should be upto the user. If they want to send fake data then they should have the right to do that. It's my phone, so if I want to set my location to another country I should be able to. Of course this should be on a per app basis. An SOS button app? This is a niche usecase.
- majewsky 7y ago
  > An SOS button app? This is a niche usecase. Not at all. In fact, more and more emergency services providers (i.e. the callcenters where 911 gets you) get your location automatically when you call them. I'm not entirely sure though if they only geolocate by cellphone tower, or if the handset also sends location data along with the emergency call. I vaguely remember hearing about this being "supported by all modern phones" or something, so it might be the second. In this case, you absolutely don't want faked location data because it could cost lives.
  - einr 7y ago
    That's not an app, and it would be trivial to hardcode a device to send its true GPS location when an emergency number is dialled. Your phone already knows the distinction between emergency numbers and normal ones.
  - kube-system 7y ago
    The mechanisms supporting those features are mandated by law and couldn’t legally be subject to user-selected permissions. Those mechanisms are not running as untrusted applications on the OS anyway, I believe most/all of them are implemented in radio firmware.
- dbcurtis 7y ago
  Interesting. Can’t wait for my Librem 5 to arrive because it enables experiments like this. I can imagine a 3-way (or more) switch. Give Lyft my GPS for right now so my driver can find me. Always block GPS on some apps, and provide fake random GPS to all others. Would be interesting to try. Of course not everyone will run a Librem (understatement). But interesting ideas might find their way into more mainstream platforms.
ViViDboarder 7y ago
> apps shouldn't have the ability to refuse to work without your data I don’t know. It’s a good signal to me, a user, that it’s an app I probably don’t want to be using anyway. Also, it’s the perfect solution to change the supply and demand structure. If people keep using the apps, they won’t know the difference. Finally, it’s their app and this their price (personal data). You can chose to pay with it or not. Just like with any other currency, the choice is still yours as a consumer, but you are not entitled to the product by default.
- Nextgrid 7y ago
  > Finally, it’s their app and this their price (personal data). You can chose to pay with it or not. There’s a reason selling organs is illegal in most countries, otherwise people end up cornered into a position where they have no other choice. Regulation doesn’t work (or doesn’t want to work, see the GDPR), the only thing left is guerilla tactics like poisoning the data so the ad-tech scum can’t tell whether they’re being lied to or are getting real data, putting in question the integrity of their entire database and them out of business.
- bobajeff 7y ago
  These days it's not terribly clear to users that their personal data is the price.
danShumway 7y ago
The same problem appears for disabling data (ie, a kill switch). What happens if your GPS is disabled right now and you dial an emergency number? Depending on the OS/phone we could either: a) live with the consequences, or b) have a bypass mechanism that can only be enabled for very, very special apps and emergency numbers s/block/fake/ doesn't change that.

bpfrh 7y ago

That's why you would enable GPS for that app.

Jonnax 7y ago

Sure. But the choice should be upto the user. If they want to send fake data then they should have the right to do that. It's my phone, so if I want to set my location to another country I should be able to. Of course this should be on a per app basis. An SOS button app? This is a niche usecase.

majewsky 7y ago
> An SOS button app? This is a niche usecase. Not at all. In fact, more and more emergency services providers (i.e. the callcenters where 911 gets you) get your location automatically when you call them. I'm not entirely sure though if they only geolocate by cellphone tower, or if the handset also sends location data along with the emergency call. I vaguely remember hearing about this being "supported by all modern phones" or something, so it might be the second. In this case, you absolutely don't want faked location data because it could cost lives.
- einr 7y ago
  That's not an app, and it would be trivial to hardcode a device to send its true GPS location when an emergency number is dialled. Your phone already knows the distinction between emergency numbers and normal ones.
- kube-system 7y ago
  The mechanisms supporting those features are mandated by law and couldn’t legally be subject to user-selected permissions. Those mechanisms are not running as untrusted applications on the OS anyway, I believe most/all of them are implemented in radio firmware.
dbcurtis 7y ago
Interesting. Can’t wait for my Librem 5 to arrive because it enables experiments like this. I can imagine a 3-way (or more) switch. Give Lyft my GPS for right now so my driver can find me. Always block GPS on some apps, and provide fake random GPS to all others. Would be interesting to try. Of course not everyone will run a Librem (understatement). But interesting ideas might find their way into more mainstream platforms.

ViViDboarder 7y ago

> apps shouldn't have the ability to refuse to work without your data I don’t know. It’s a good signal to me, a user, that it’s an app I probably don’t want to be using anyway. Also, it’s the perfect solution to change the supply and demand structure. If people keep using the apps, they won’t know the difference. Finally, it’s their app and this their price (personal data). You can chose to pay with it or not. Just like with any other currency, the choice is still yours as a consumer, but you are not entitled to the product by default.

Nextgrid 7y ago
> Finally, it’s their app and this their price (personal data). You can chose to pay with it or not. There’s a reason selling organs is illegal in most countries, otherwise people end up cornered into a position where they have no other choice. Regulation doesn’t work (or doesn’t want to work, see the GDPR), the only thing left is guerilla tactics like poisoning the data so the ad-tech scum can’t tell whether they’re being lied to or are getting real data, putting in question the integrity of their entire database and them out of business.
bobajeff 7y ago
These days it's not terribly clear to users that their personal data is the price.

danShumway 7y ago

The same problem appears for disabling data (ie, a kill switch). What happens if your GPS is disabled right now and you dial an emergency number? Depending on the OS/phone we could either: a) live with the consequences, or b) have a bypass mechanism that can only be enabled for very, very special apps and emergency numbers s/block/fake/ doesn't change that.