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I have very little doubt that countries are like their own people. If anything, for the simple fact that democratic governments are the expression of the people
by Udik 7y ago
I have very little doubt that countries are like their own people. If anything, for the simple fact that democratic governments are the expression of the people's predilections, fears, shortcomings and traditions.
When an emotional undercurrent or specific attitude is present in a population- be it the result of current events or of a longstanding cultural heritage, then it will reflect at state level. Thinking of interpreting history as the result of external conditions and the choices of few people in power is like trying to interpret the behaviour of a person as the combination of external events and individual neurons firing.
- smitty1e 7y agoTo oversimplify, think of a human population as an information system, and ask - where is the state kept, and - where is the state mutated? There is some state kept in objects like books and buildings and databases. But the individual human brains are the greatness/shame of the nation. There is a cognitive crutch "The American People" that is frequently leaned on, but the large the population symbolically aggregated for the assertion, the less meaningful it seems. Hence my disagreement when someone says: > I have very little doubt that countries are like their own people. It gets really hard to make any point stick at scale.
- Merrill 7y agoA common phrase of politicians and commentators objecting to some policy with which they disagree is "That is not who we are as a people!" Unless backed up with really good polling data, the phrase is total nonsense.
- smitty1e 7y agoI'm attacking "as a people". It's a flag indicating: "hogwash".
- Udik 7y agoI think you might be overlooking the depth of cultural attitudes and the size of cultural differences between populations. From the stuff you're taught in school, to what you learn in the family, to common sayings, to the shape of your cities: everything contributes in building a slightly different worldview and different ways of reacting to events and changes. On the other hand, when politicians say "the people want it" it's almost always bs. What they mean is that, in the best case, they have a slight absolute majority- but often only a relative one. But that doesn't really count much- the issues they talk about are already within the frame of what is culturally possible in that country. Trump was elected with less than 50% of the votes, so he doesn't represent "the people"; however, he would have struggled to get 5% in Germany- so in some sense electing Trump does represent "the American people"- about as much as Hillary Clinton does.
- smitty1e 7y agoBut all of that cultural content happens in peoples' heads, not in some abstract, external, durable space.
- SuoDuanDao 7y agoI think of them more as amorphous organisms, like multicellular amoebae. The reproductive system of a country (or civilization) is much more analogous to that of an amoeba than a human. Gene exchange can happen independent of reproduction, while reproduction is largely based on consumption.
- analyst74 7y agoPower is not just about who is President, while the masses have the vote, it's the people with resources and determination who shape public discourse and backroom dealings.
- Udik 7y agoExactly. The victory of Trump over Clinton is a random occurrence- the difference in the polls was very small; but what the nation considers normal, how it reacts to events, what it considers worth discussing- and how that discussion can be framed if you want the people to engage with it- these things depend on the average of the country's culture, on its identity. Having lived in three different European countries, I can tell you that there are surprising cultural differences, sometimes obvious and sometimes much more subtle, and that they have a big impact on how the country behaves as a whole.