6 ms·

Apple Moves to Tighten Control of App Store

89 points by jonburs 16y ago

ajl2011 16y ago
what bullsh*#t
jkincaid 16y ago
The really interesting bit is where it says that developers won't be able to "let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store". Amazon has worked around Apple's rules by always kicking users out to the browser to complete the transaction. This apparently kills that.
- greyman 16y ago
  Jason, I think this is still an open issue, as was pointed out in the comments under your Techcrunch article. There is also another possibility - that Apple just didn't like that in the new Sony app, you could buy ebooks directly, while other apps (like Kindle app, but also some others) fire up browser. And this technique Apple did NOT banned (yet).
- msmithstubbs 16y ago
  The article does say that, but it's not clear who the source for this is. Amazon and Apple declined to comment, and the only confirmed report from Sony is with regard to in-app purchases, and I'm pretty sure that was an existing condition. So where is this new rule coming from?
  - Tycho 16y ago
    So in other words the entire article could just be FUD? (from an disinterested party)
mlinsey 16y ago
I think Sony could probably use the same work-around Amazon appears to be using for its Kindle app: tapping a button to shop for books in the Kindle app opens a browser window allowing you to buy a book on the mobile version of the Amazon.com site. Then when you go back to the app it automatically syncs with your book collection and downloads the book. It makes one wonder what other App store restrictions might be circumvented by clever integration of Native and HTML5 apps.
- jkincaid 16y ago
  It sounds like that's banned too though. "The company has told some applications developers, including Sony, that they can no longer sell content, like e-books, within their apps, or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store."
  - mlinsey 16y ago
    This is possible, but it's so difficult to enforce that I assume it must be a reporting error. Will the dropbox app prevent me from accessing more than 2GB of my folder? Will they force the Pandora app to keep playing music after 40 hours even if haven't paid for a subscription? Will I now have to buy a separate Netflix plan for my iPad that I buy in iTunes instead of getting that with my regular plan? The minute you allow any sort of third party authentication systems in an app, it becomes basically impossible to know whether or not someone is using those credentials to buy something on a website somewhere that enables access to more data in your app.
    - ujjwalg 16y ago
      I would say it becomes difficult to know not impossible. And as soon as they realize it they can remove the app from the appstore.
    - jkincaid 16y ago
      Well, remember Apple has a screening process so they don't have to detect credentials — they can just have the reviewer try buying something. And they probably only really care about the big content sellers (Amazon, Google, etc.) so they wouldn't have that many apps to enforce it on. As for the variety of different apps, Apple isn't exactly known for being consistent. I'm sure they could come up with different rules for subscription vs. a la carte downloads.
drawkbox 16y ago
As an Apple owner of all their hardware and devices this is pretty lame and really hope it does not affect Amazon/Kindle. I have never owned a Kindle but prefer Kindle books and love them. I read them on PC, Mac, iPad, iPhone, but mainly my iPad. If it weren't for Kindle, I may have bought a few more books on iBooks just for the iPad, but there are far fewer books and I like being able to read them on multiple devices. The whole point of an ebook is to read them on multiple devices.
- jefe78 16y ago
  Check out the Kobo. I got one for Christmas and love the way they do things. I can even pop an SD card, full of PDFS into my ereader with no problems.
  - mitjak 16y ago
    Or any other reader, really, like the Sony's or the Nook. The Kobo is sold at about the same price as a Nook but is limited in a number of very annoying ways (no book wide search, no way to jump to a particular page etc.)
    - jefe78 16y ago
      That's fair. Those are some major features. I don't find them to be of any particular hindrance though. Frankly, I find I read more quickly on the Kobo, as opposed to traditional book formats.
  - rmc 16y ago
    You can read PDFs on the Kindle fine.
    - jefe78 16y ago
      Don't recall saying you can't.
    - j2d2j2d2 16y ago
      You can read them, but unless you have the dx it will be difficult. I much prefer the experience of goodreader on iPad.
danielparks 16y ago
This seems to be incorrect. Apple is not moving to tighten control; the restriction has been there for a while. I believe Apple banned non-Apple in-app purchases when they launched their in-app purchase system (if not before then). Edit: The article does say Apple "has told some applications developers … that they can no longer … let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store." However, that doesn't seem to be sourced, and when the point is reiterated in the fourth paragraph, only the existing restriction is mentioned: "Apple told Sony that from now on, all in-app purchases would have to go through Apple, said Steve Haber, president of Sony’s digital reading division."
- abbott 16y ago
  Upon review of the iTunes Connect EULA in fall 2010, 3rd party in-app purchasing is possible as long as a pre-existing service which requires payments exists prior to the release of an app. For example, Evernote does/did qualify, because its service exists outside of the iOS app. Zoosk app may have this implemented — http://d.pr/oc2F http://d.pr/oc2F
  - abbott 16y ago
    I forgot to mention, this term includes purchase redirects to mobile Safari. The Kindle app accomplishes this but it is fairly disjointed. Recurly mobile payments (http://recurly.com http://recurly.com) has a solution that is seamless and redirects back to the app upon checkout completion.
- smackfu 16y ago
  NYTimes does have journalism standards. It's not a blog.
jefe78 16y ago
How much tighter can they get with their control? I'm looking forward to buying an Android phone when my (ridiculous!) 3 year contract is up with Telus(Canada).
runjake 16y ago
It's sad to say, but in my opinion, Apple is so far ahead of the competition, I'll stick with them in spite of this. And yes, I've had several Android phones, up to and including the Nexus S.
- ajl2011 16y ago
  good for you ...
SoftwareMaven 16y ago
First, I'm curious how much of this is a NYT tech reporter hoping to get a future Sony exclusive by making a big anti-Apple stink of something completely out of context. Second, I hate it when Apple makes me feel internally conflicted. I love so much about the hardware and software, but I deplore their draconian stances on some things. On the other hand, some of those stances are things I like about them when it comes to supporting my families electronics. I need to go look at something shiny...
snitko 16y ago
If Apple blocks Kindle, I'm not buying an iPad. Kindle is practically the reason I was going to buy it. iBooks doesn't work for me, because iTunes does not accept credit cards from my country.
- grinich 16y ago
  Which country?
- mithaler 16y ago
  > Kindle is practically the reason I was going to buy it. Then why not just buy a Kindle?
  - snitko 16y ago
    Because iPad's also perfect for reading the web. I've tried it and it feels so much better than a computer. You can't effectively browse the web with Kindle. Now I'm going to consider buying some Android tablet.
jscore 16y ago
Apple can do whatever the heck they want. The market will be the sole judge whether their choices are correct or not. So far the history is on their side.
jammur 16y ago
I'm wondering if the part about Apple not letting customers have access to media that was purchased outside the App Store (e.g. Kindle books) is just an off-the-cuff remark made by some Sony executive who was mad about Apple not letting them do their own in-app purchases. Seems odd, considering Amazon has been doing it this whole time with seemingly no protest from Apple.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
tomelders 16y ago
I think this probably has something to do with the new subscription model they're rolling out with Newscorp and the Daily. I'm not so sure it's as cut and dry as this article makes out, and I'd wait to hear from Apple about that "access to purchases they have made outside the App Store" bit. It sounds a bit weird to me. I can think of a hundred ways that's not enforceable or even legal. As I understand it, the only difference here is that the paying for content on an Apple Device now has to go through Apple. Which I think may well be a bonus for end users (in terms of convenience and security), but not so great for people like Sony and Amazon who were expecting to get 100% of the cash but now they'll have to pay 30% (probably) to Apple. They may think it's unfair for Apple to muscle in on their revenue, but they didn't invent iOS or the iPad or the iPhone or the iPod Touch... so..... neeeerh!
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
jeffb 16y ago
I doubt this is actually true. Apple has always required in-app purchases to go through Apple. That's why the Kindle app pushes you out to Safari to make purchases. Despite what the article says, I bet Sony tried to implement their own in-app purchase process instead of bumping the user out to Safari. Apple rejected the app for breaking a well-known rule, and now Sony is whining about it for publicity. That's my guess anyway. In fact, the article says "Apple told Sony that from now on, all in-app purchases would have to go through Apple, said Steve Haber, president of Sony’s digital reading division." This isn't a change. In-app purchases have always had to go through Apple.
hsuma 16y ago
So Apple wants to block companies from allowing people to see content that wasn't paid for through their system. What's next, blocking paid websites? Surely Amazon would just set up a website where users could access their Kindle books, bypassing the whole App Store problem. This is silly on Apple's part as it decreases the potential audience for their devices, and the ease of use.
- dhimes 16y ago
  What's next, blocking paid websites? I fear this.
  - cubicle67 16y ago
    I don't
    - dhimes 16y ago
      Because you don't think it can happen?
      - cubicle67 16y ago
        correct. no way on earth Apple would do this. they may make some decisions we don't agree with, but they're not stupid
- jonhendry 16y ago
  "So Apple wants to block companies from allowing people to see content that wasn't paid for through their system. " No. Sony is butthurt because they broke a long-standing app store rule about in-app purchases, and is working the refs by going to the press. Every few months a story like this comes up, and there's a huge orgy of pearl-clutching, and then it turns out to have been nothing after all.
tehjones 16y ago
Thank you for linking an article behind a paywall, no seriously I am happy you can reach this piece and I am sure it is very informative.
- smackfu 16y ago
  NYTimes isn't a pay wall, it's a registration wall. Like it has been for the last 10 years or so. Welcome to the internet.
nika 16y ago
My app was rejected once for violating the HIG. I really missed out on a PR opportunity to write up a big story about how Apple won't accept apps from gay people! Just because Apple rejects one app does not mean it is a new policy decision. I think these articles, which are, at their core, based on speculation, are frankly dishonest. Apple does not give reasons for rejections to anyone other than the submitter of the app. Over the last two years we've had dozens of these articles about apples "draconian" policies, often about apps that were rejected for other reasons. Of course the original article is spread around by anti-apple zealots, but when it later comes out that Apple has no such policy, or the app appears in the store after fixing the bug.... the retractions? there are none! So called "journalists" feel that they can just speculate on a reason and use it to write a sensational story. Linking to them and giving them the attention they seek is gives them the incentive to continue doing this, rather than go out and get good tech stories. This is why tech "journalism" is so often so lowbrow. On one hand it is a testemant to the integrity of apple and the lack of integrity of the "journalists" who write these hit pieces that Apple doesn't respond. But now we have a generation of android zealots who think that Apple really is "draconian". I had one complete non-techie tell me that I shouldn't write apps for iOS because Apple is draconian. Of course, my experience actually making apps in the app store does not dissuade her perception of what she's heard from her friends and in articles like this. Apple's policy is laudable, they figure eventually the truth will get out. I hope they are right, but I fear they are wrong. There are still many people who believe there is a defect in the iPhone 4's antenna, for instance.
- bad_user 16y ago
  Should fans of Apple start a campaign of hatred and dishonesty against android like they have against us? No need; Gruber is already on the job.
  - nika 16y ago
    I've edited my post to remove that line because I think it was an expression of emotion and over the top. As for Gruber, I really don't like him at all. He kinda represents a lot of the qualities I'm objecting to, as you point out.
nickpp 16y ago
Question: can I, in turn, download and read iBooks on my Kindle or my Sony Reader?
apress 16y ago
Lex Friedman speculates that Sony may have tried to add a webkit-enabled quasi-browser based in app purchase feature, arguing that it was the same as Kindle and other apps that push you out to mobile Safari to buy ebooks. But it wasn't push the user out to Safari...http://blog.lexfriedman.com/post/2856721037/apple-hasnt-changed-in-app-purchasing-rules-one-iota http://blog.lexfriedman.com/post/2856721037/apple-hasnt-chan...
projectileboy 16y ago
It's this kind of stuff that makes me worried about the future of Apple without Jobs at the wheel. I can't back this up, but the PR always seems ham-fisted when handled by others.
egb 16y ago
Although this is lame on Apple's part, can we also agree that it's lame on Amazon's part to disallow affiliate links for use on mobile devices or websites aimed at mobile? I have struggled to understand why they would want to keep people (like me) from making apps to drive purchases to Amazon on mobile, and I don't have any good answer at all. Having said that, I can't quite decode this move by Apple yet...

89 points by jonburs 16y ago

ajl2011 16y ago

what bullsh*#t

The really interesting bit is where it says that developers won't be able to "let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store". Amazon has worked around Apple's rules by always kicking users out to the browser to complete the transaction. This apparently kills that.

greyman 16y ago
Jason, I think this is still an open issue, as was pointed out in the comments under your Techcrunch article. There is also another possibility - that Apple just didn't like that in the new Sony app, you could buy ebooks directly, while other apps (like Kindle app, but also some others) fire up browser. And this technique Apple did NOT banned (yet).
msmithstubbs 16y ago
The article does say that, but it's not clear who the source for this is. Amazon and Apple declined to comment, and the only confirmed report from Sony is with regard to in-app purchases, and I'm pretty sure that was an existing condition. So where is this new rule coming from?
- Tycho 16y ago
  So in other words the entire article could just be FUD? (from an disinterested party)

mlinsey 16y ago

I think Sony could probably use the same work-around Amazon appears to be using for its Kindle app: tapping a button to shop for books in the Kindle app opens a browser window allowing you to buy a book on the mobile version of the Amazon.com site. Then when you go back to the app it automatically syncs with your book collection and downloads the book. It makes one wonder what other App store restrictions might be circumvented by clever integration of Native and HTML5 apps.

jkincaid 16y ago
It sounds like that's banned too though. "The company has told some applications developers, including Sony, that they can no longer sell content, like e-books, within their apps, or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store."
- mlinsey 16y ago
  This is possible, but it's so difficult to enforce that I assume it must be a reporting error. Will the dropbox app prevent me from accessing more than 2GB of my folder? Will they force the Pandora app to keep playing music after 40 hours even if haven't paid for a subscription? Will I now have to buy a separate Netflix plan for my iPad that I buy in iTunes instead of getting that with my regular plan? The minute you allow any sort of third party authentication systems in an app, it becomes basically impossible to know whether or not someone is using those credentials to buy something on a website somewhere that enables access to more data in your app.
  - ujjwalg 16y ago
    I would say it becomes difficult to know not impossible. And as soon as they realize it they can remove the app from the appstore.
  - jkincaid 16y ago
    Well, remember Apple has a screening process so they don't have to detect credentials — they can just have the reviewer try buying something. And they probably only really care about the big content sellers (Amazon, Google, etc.) so they wouldn't have that many apps to enforce it on. As for the variety of different apps, Apple isn't exactly known for being consistent. I'm sure they could come up with different rules for subscription vs. a la carte downloads.

drawkbox 16y ago

As an Apple owner of all their hardware and devices this is pretty lame and really hope it does not affect Amazon/Kindle. I have never owned a Kindle but prefer Kindle books and love them. I read them on PC, Mac, iPad, iPhone, but mainly my iPad. If it weren't for Kindle, I may have bought a few more books on iBooks just for the iPad, but there are far fewer books and I like being able to read them on multiple devices. The whole point of an ebook is to read them on multiple devices.

jefe78 16y ago
Check out the Kobo. I got one for Christmas and love the way they do things. I can even pop an SD card, full of PDFS into my ereader with no problems.
- mitjak 16y ago
  Or any other reader, really, like the Sony's or the Nook. The Kobo is sold at about the same price as a Nook but is limited in a number of very annoying ways (no book wide search, no way to jump to a particular page etc.)
  - jefe78 16y ago
    That's fair. Those are some major features. I don't find them to be of any particular hindrance though. Frankly, I find I read more quickly on the Kobo, as opposed to traditional book formats.
- rmc 16y ago
  You can read PDFs on the Kindle fine.
  - jefe78 16y ago
    Don't recall saying you can't.
  - j2d2j2d2 16y ago
    You can read them, but unless you have the dx it will be difficult. I much prefer the experience of goodreader on iPad.

danielparks 16y ago

This seems to be incorrect. Apple is not moving to tighten control; the restriction has been there for a while. I believe Apple banned non-Apple in-app purchases when they launched their in-app purchase system (if not before then). Edit: The article does say Apple "has told some applications developers … that they can no longer … let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store." However, that doesn't seem to be sourced, and when the point is reiterated in the fourth paragraph, only the existing restriction is mentioned: "Apple told Sony that from now on, all in-app purchases would have to go through Apple, said Steve Haber, president of Sony’s digital reading division."

abbott 16y ago
Upon review of the iTunes Connect EULA in fall 2010, 3rd party in-app purchasing is possible as long as a pre-existing service which requires payments exists prior to the release of an app. For example, Evernote does/did qualify, because its service exists outside of the iOS app. Zoosk app may have this implemented — http://d.pr/oc2F http://d.pr/oc2F
- abbott 16y ago
  I forgot to mention, this term includes purchase redirects to mobile Safari. The Kindle app accomplishes this but it is fairly disjointed. Recurly mobile payments (http://recurly.com http://recurly.com) has a solution that is seamless and redirects back to the app upon checkout completion.
smackfu 16y ago
NYTimes does have journalism standards. It's not a blog.

jefe78 16y ago

How much tighter can they get with their control? I'm looking forward to buying an Android phone when my (ridiculous!) 3 year contract is up with Telus(Canada).

runjake 16y ago

It's sad to say, but in my opinion, Apple is so far ahead of the competition, I'll stick with them in spite of this. And yes, I've had several Android phones, up to and including the Nexus S.

ajl2011 16y ago
good for you ...

SoftwareMaven 16y ago

First, I'm curious how much of this is a NYT tech reporter hoping to get a future Sony exclusive by making a big anti-Apple stink of something completely out of context. Second, I hate it when Apple makes me feel internally conflicted. I love so much about the hardware and software, but I deplore their draconian stances on some things. On the other hand, some of those stances are things I like about them when it comes to supporting my families electronics. I need to go look at something shiny...

snitko 16y ago

If Apple blocks Kindle, I'm not buying an iPad. Kindle is practically the reason I was going to buy it. iBooks doesn't work for me, because iTunes does not accept credit cards from my country.

grinich 16y ago
Which country?
mithaler 16y ago
> Kindle is practically the reason I was going to buy it. Then why not just buy a Kindle?
- snitko 16y ago
  Because iPad's also perfect for reading the web. I've tried it and it feels so much better than a computer. You can't effectively browse the web with Kindle. Now I'm going to consider buying some Android tablet.

jscore 16y ago

Apple can do whatever the heck they want. The market will be the sole judge whether their choices are correct or not. So far the history is on their side.

jammur 16y ago

I'm wondering if the part about Apple not letting customers have access to media that was purchased outside the App Store (e.g. Kindle books) is just an off-the-cuff remark made by some Sony executive who was mad about Apple not letting them do their own in-app purchases. Seems odd, considering Amazon has been doing it this whole time with seemingly no protest from Apple.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

tomelders 16y ago

I think this probably has something to do with the new subscription model they're rolling out with Newscorp and the Daily. I'm not so sure it's as cut and dry as this article makes out, and I'd wait to hear from Apple about that "access to purchases they have made outside the App Store" bit. It sounds a bit weird to me. I can think of a hundred ways that's not enforceable or even legal. As I understand it, the only difference here is that the paying for content on an Apple Device now has to go through Apple. Which I think may well be a bonus for end users (in terms of convenience and security), but not so great for people like Sony and Amazon who were expecting to get 100% of the cash but now they'll have to pay 30% (probably) to Apple. They may think it's unfair for Apple to muscle in on their revenue, but they didn't invent iOS or the iPad or the iPhone or the iPod Touch... so..... neeeerh!

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

jeffb 16y ago

I doubt this is actually true. Apple has always required in-app purchases to go through Apple. That's why the Kindle app pushes you out to Safari to make purchases. Despite what the article says, I bet Sony tried to implement their own in-app purchase process instead of bumping the user out to Safari. Apple rejected the app for breaking a well-known rule, and now Sony is whining about it for publicity. That's my guess anyway. In fact, the article says "Apple told Sony that from now on, all in-app purchases would have to go through Apple, said Steve Haber, president of Sony’s digital reading division." This isn't a change. In-app purchases have always had to go through Apple.

hsuma 16y ago

So Apple wants to block companies from allowing people to see content that wasn't paid for through their system. What's next, blocking paid websites? Surely Amazon would just set up a website where users could access their Kindle books, bypassing the whole App Store problem. This is silly on Apple's part as it decreases the potential audience for their devices, and the ease of use.

dhimes 16y ago
What's next, blocking paid websites? I fear this.
- cubicle67 16y ago
  I don't
  - dhimes 16y ago
    Because you don't think it can happen?
    - cubicle67 16y ago
      correct. no way on earth Apple would do this. they may make some decisions we don't agree with, but they're not stupid
jonhendry 16y ago
"So Apple wants to block companies from allowing people to see content that wasn't paid for through their system. " No. Sony is butthurt because they broke a long-standing app store rule about in-app purchases, and is working the refs by going to the press. Every few months a story like this comes up, and there's a huge orgy of pearl-clutching, and then it turns out to have been nothing after all.

tehjones 16y ago

Thank you for linking an article behind a paywall, no seriously I am happy you can reach this piece and I am sure it is very informative.

smackfu 16y ago
NYTimes isn't a pay wall, it's a registration wall. Like it has been for the last 10 years or so. Welcome to the internet.

nika 16y ago

My app was rejected once for violating the HIG. I really missed out on a PR opportunity to write up a big story about how Apple won't accept apps from gay people! Just because Apple rejects one app does not mean it is a new policy decision. I think these articles, which are, at their core, based on speculation, are frankly dishonest. Apple does not give reasons for rejections to anyone other than the submitter of the app. Over the last two years we've had dozens of these articles about apples "draconian" policies, often about apps that were rejected for other reasons. Of course the original article is spread around by anti-apple zealots, but when it later comes out that Apple has no such policy, or the app appears in the store after fixing the bug.... the retractions? there are none! So called "journalists" feel that they can just speculate on a reason and use it to write a sensational story. Linking to them and giving them the attention they seek is gives them the incentive to continue doing this, rather than go out and get good tech stories. This is why tech "journalism" is so often so lowbrow. On one hand it is a testemant to the integrity of apple and the lack of integrity of the "journalists" who write these hit pieces that Apple doesn't respond. But now we have a generation of android zealots who think that Apple really is "draconian". I had one complete non-techie tell me that I shouldn't write apps for iOS because Apple is draconian. Of course, my experience actually making apps in the app store does not dissuade her perception of what she's heard from her friends and in articles like this. Apple's policy is laudable, they figure eventually the truth will get out. I hope they are right, but I fear they are wrong. There are still many people who believe there is a defect in the iPhone 4's antenna, for instance.

bad_user 16y ago
Should fans of Apple start a campaign of hatred and dishonesty against android like they have against us? No need; Gruber is already on the job.
- nika 16y ago
  I've edited my post to remove that line because I think it was an expression of emotion and over the top. As for Gruber, I really don't like him at all. He kinda represents a lot of the qualities I'm objecting to, as you point out.

nickpp 16y ago

Question: can I, in turn, download and read iBooks on my Kindle or my Sony Reader?

apress 16y ago

Lex Friedman speculates that Sony may have tried to add a webkit-enabled quasi-browser based in app purchase feature, arguing that it was the same as Kindle and other apps that push you out to mobile Safari to buy ebooks. But it wasn't push the user out to Safari...http://blog.lexfriedman.com/post/2856721037/apple-hasnt-changed-in-app-purchasing-rules-one-iota http://blog.lexfriedman.com/post/2856721037/apple-hasnt-chan...

projectileboy 16y ago

It's this kind of stuff that makes me worried about the future of Apple without Jobs at the wheel. I can't back this up, but the PR always seems ham-fisted when handled by others.

egb 16y ago

Although this is lame on Apple's part, can we also agree that it's lame on Amazon's part to disallow affiliate links for use on mobile devices or websites aimed at mobile? I have struggled to understand why they would want to keep people (like me) from making apps to drive purchases to Amazon on mobile, and I don't have any good answer at all. Having said that, I can't quite decode this move by Apple yet...