4 ms·

The gilettes jaunes are on the streets, nobody cares to make them cultural icons. Gays had very visible and generally disproportionate (compared to population)

The gilettes jaunes are on the streets, nobody cares to make them cultural icons. Gays had very visible and generally disproportionate (compared to population) media coverage of their rights. Was it really 100% due to activists on the street, or very influential but high profile gay people who helped build one of the few successful rights movements of our times?

chongli 7y ago
high profile gay people When I read this the first person I thought of was Alan Turing [1]. His was the fate of high profile gay people until the grassroots movement sprang from the Stonewall riots [1]. It was these activists who took the first steps to even make it possible for a high profile gay person to come out in public. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots
- pyuser583 7y ago
  Do you seriously believe that upper class gays/lesbians and lower class gays/lesbians was the same? In order for Alan Turing to be charged with “gross indecency”, he had to go the police himself, inform them he was gay (without being asked or prompted), and affirm it in a statement signed under penalty of perjury. The only reason he did that was because he was so accustomed to people not caring, he didn’t think he was in any danger. Being privileged has its privileges.
  - katet 7y ago
    I just had to look up that claim, and it seems that Turing admitted a homosexual relationship during a police investigation about his house being burgled, seeing as that relationship was with the accused burglar. That's slightly different to the implication that he walked into a police station of his own free will and promptly signed his own castration order. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#Conviction_for_indecency https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#Conviction_for_i... (I'm aware of wikipedia fallibility but I'm on mobile and will generally trust in the citations for this particular individual)
    - pyuser583 7y ago
      My description of his conviction was incomplete. I wasn’t trying to give a comprehensive account. I was simply trying to explain the level of protection his privilege afforded him. He was comfortable reporting one of his lovers to the police because he was used to people looking the other way. Obviously, one of the many downsides to criminalizing harmless behavior is that it places people outside the protection of the law.
vanusa 7y ago
Was it really 100% due to activists on the street, or [high-profile insiders] Okay, 90 percent activists on the street, 10 percent insiders (who generally only stepped in after the 90 percent had already laid their bodies on the tracks, and accomplished the hard part).
- buboard 7y ago
  Was it really 90%? Reason i m asking is thay certain countries had 0% activism and it all changed thanks to culture and osmosis. The fact that audiences were prepared for the changes was huge
- nwah1 7y ago
  Since we're all spouting bare assertions, I assert that it was 90% Frasier and Ellen DeGeneres and 10% activists.
  - vanusa 7y ago
    I assert that it was 90% Frasier and Ellen DeGeneres Who got into a Tardis and went back and organized the Stonewall riots, ACT UP and the Mattachine Society. Yeah, OK.

chongli 7y ago

high profile gay people When I read this the first person I thought of was Alan Turing [1]. His was the fate of high profile gay people until the grassroots movement sprang from the Stonewall riots [1]. It was these activists who took the first steps to even make it possible for a high profile gay person to come out in public. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

pyuser583 7y ago
Do you seriously believe that upper class gays/lesbians and lower class gays/lesbians was the same? In order for Alan Turing to be charged with “gross indecency”, he had to go the police himself, inform them he was gay (without being asked or prompted), and affirm it in a statement signed under penalty of perjury. The only reason he did that was because he was so accustomed to people not caring, he didn’t think he was in any danger. Being privileged has its privileges.
- katet 7y ago
  I just had to look up that claim, and it seems that Turing admitted a homosexual relationship during a police investigation about his house being burgled, seeing as that relationship was with the accused burglar. That's slightly different to the implication that he walked into a police station of his own free will and promptly signed his own castration order. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#Conviction_for_indecency https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#Conviction_for_i... (I'm aware of wikipedia fallibility but I'm on mobile and will generally trust in the citations for this particular individual)
  - pyuser583 7y ago
    My description of his conviction was incomplete. I wasn’t trying to give a comprehensive account. I was simply trying to explain the level of protection his privilege afforded him. He was comfortable reporting one of his lovers to the police because he was used to people looking the other way. Obviously, one of the many downsides to criminalizing harmless behavior is that it places people outside the protection of the law.

vanusa 7y ago

Was it really 100% due to activists on the street, or [high-profile insiders] Okay, 90 percent activists on the street, 10 percent insiders (who generally only stepped in after the 90 percent had already laid their bodies on the tracks, and accomplished the hard part).

buboard 7y ago
Was it really 90%? Reason i m asking is thay certain countries had 0% activism and it all changed thanks to culture and osmosis. The fact that audiences were prepared for the changes was huge
nwah1 7y ago
Since we're all spouting bare assertions, I assert that it was 90% Frasier and Ellen DeGeneres and 10% activists.
- vanusa 7y ago
  I assert that it was 90% Frasier and Ellen DeGeneres Who got into a Tardis and went back and organized the Stonewall riots, ACT UP and the Mattachine Society. Yeah, OK.