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1. I'm a Christian myself, and I see no contradiction between my religious beliefs and the rational conclusion that science tends to provide the best answers fo

1. I'm a Christian myself, and I see no contradiction between my religious beliefs and the rational conclusion that science tends to provide the best answers for a vast scope of phenomenons 2. I would never use hallucinogens out of my own volition. But, because science is credible, I would definitely do so if there were a reasonable consensus in the medical community that this category of drugs was beneficial for me. 3. I believe your idea of the effect of hallucinogens is incorrect. They do not disconnect one from reality but merely alters how such reality is perceived. One might even argue that hallucinogens can get you closer to "reality" (whatever that means...) by allowing you to notice a wider range of stimuli that is not available under normal conditions. 4. Maybe hallucinogens are gifts from God, like quinine, lithium, and penicillin.

TimTheTinker 7y ago
I don't disagree with you. But your points (3) and (4) don't discount the problems inherent in altering one's perception of reality. Eph. 5:18 and similar texts warn "don't get drunk on wine" - not that wine itself is bad (au contrare!), but that too much alters one's perception of reality and leads one astray. I agree with your point (4) -- yes, all things God created are good, these substances included. There is no created thing that is inherently evil, only taking a good thing at the wrong time or in the wrong way. So in the case of hallucinogens, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with microdosing for particular purposes. My point is that since they're God-given, natural substances, there is a right and proper way to approach their use. But putting one's mind under their influence (or the influence of any other substance) would cross the line, Biblically speaking.
- dwaltrip 7y ago
  Everything you do or experience "alters" your perception. It's just that we slowly build up habitual perceptual patterns and "tracks in the dirt" over many months and years of time, and so the changes usually occur too slowly or subtly for us to notice easily. But not always! On rare days, something happens... a long series of cumulative affects finally precipitates or something unexpected comes at us in the just right way, shattering our view. And then after a brief period of processing, we wake up the next morning with a different perspective. Psychedelics are like that in their own way. They seem to temporarily weaken these deeply-habitual thought patterns and perspectives, allowing one to look at things in a new way. It doesn't "alter" reality. It loosens our iron-grip on our own accumulated view of what we think reality should be. After the trip finishes, our grip re-strengthens, but it may be holding something slightly different, and perhaps a bit less desperately. It's pretty fascinating stuff. I think it can be a powerful tool for our well-being if we use it carefully. Emphasis on the careful use! They can certainly cause harm if they are misused.
- bananamerica 7y ago
  > (3) and (4) don't discount the problems inherent in altering one's perception of reality 1. AFAIK, Christianity does not negate the overall use of medicine 2. Mental illnesses are essentially a deviation from normal, healthy patterns of cognition. 3. When well applied, psychiatric medications can bring patients closer to reality instead of the opposite 4. If (and only if) some hallucinogens become universally approved as effective medications for such illnesses, the same reasoning could also be applied to them 5. Therefore, in the context of your interpretation of Christianity, these medications might actually bring patients closer to God.

TimTheTinker 7y ago

I don't disagree with you. But your points (3) and (4) don't discount the problems inherent in altering one's perception of reality. Eph. 5:18 and similar texts warn "don't get drunk on wine" - not that wine itself is bad (au contrare!), but that too much alters one's perception of reality and leads one astray. I agree with your point (4) -- yes, all things God created are good, these substances included. There is no created thing that is inherently evil, only taking a good thing at the wrong time or in the wrong way. So in the case of hallucinogens, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with microdosing for particular purposes. My point is that since they're God-given, natural substances, there is a right and proper way to approach their use. But putting one's mind under their influence (or the influence of any other substance) would cross the line, Biblically speaking.

dwaltrip 7y ago
Everything you do or experience "alters" your perception. It's just that we slowly build up habitual perceptual patterns and "tracks in the dirt" over many months and years of time, and so the changes usually occur too slowly or subtly for us to notice easily. But not always! On rare days, something happens... a long series of cumulative affects finally precipitates or something unexpected comes at us in the just right way, shattering our view. And then after a brief period of processing, we wake up the next morning with a different perspective. Psychedelics are like that in their own way. They seem to temporarily weaken these deeply-habitual thought patterns and perspectives, allowing one to look at things in a new way. It doesn't "alter" reality. It loosens our iron-grip on our own accumulated view of what we think reality should be. After the trip finishes, our grip re-strengthens, but it may be holding something slightly different, and perhaps a bit less desperately. It's pretty fascinating stuff. I think it can be a powerful tool for our well-being if we use it carefully. Emphasis on the careful use! They can certainly cause harm if they are misused.
bananamerica 7y ago
> (3) and (4) don't discount the problems inherent in altering one's perception of reality 1. AFAIK, Christianity does not negate the overall use of medicine 2. Mental illnesses are essentially a deviation from normal, healthy patterns of cognition. 3. When well applied, psychiatric medications can bring patients closer to reality instead of the opposite 4. If (and only if) some hallucinogens become universally approved as effective medications for such illnesses, the same reasoning could also be applied to them 5. Therefore, in the context of your interpretation of Christianity, these medications might actually bring patients closer to God.