5 ms·

> and really ensure your mindset ("set") is positive and open Everyone says this and it's little more than bro science. So if you have a bad experience from th

> and really ensure your mindset ("set") is positive and open Everyone says this and it's little more than bro science. So if you have a bad experience from the drugs, it was because you weren't in a positive headspace? Sounds like No True Scotsman.

filoleg 7y ago
>So if you have a bad experience from the drugs, it was because you weren't in a positive headspace? You can always test out this hypothesis by doing a tab of LSD from the same batch twice while controlling for your headspace. One day, you do it with a positive headspace, and another day you do it with a negative one. If you had a great experience the first time and a bad experience the second time, clearly the headspace alignment made the difference. Yes, this kind of testing isn't as rigorous as it would have been for a legitimate scientific trial (which I bet we will see in the future as the research into the area accelerates), but imo it is more than just a No True Scotsman backed by broscience. And of course, no one says that a negative headspace is the only reason for someone to have a bad experience, there are others for sure. For example, certain people with predisposition for schizophrenia probably should abstain as well. AFAIK psychedelics won't cause a schizophrenia in an otherwise healthy person, but I heard it might kick off an early onset if you were going to get a schizophrenia in a few years without any psychedelics anyways.
- wufufufu 7y ago
  "headspace" doesn't mean anything
  - AnthonBerg 7y ago
    You don’t understand anything when you read or hear the word?
  - Analog24 7y ago
    Yes, it does. It's quite literally in the dictionary: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/headspace https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/headspace
    - wufufufu 7y ago
      Ok have fun performing psychological experiments on your brain using "informal" merriam webster definitions
      - Analog24 7y ago
        You're just being pedantic and grasping at straws. Whether or not we're using the scientific term for an individual's mindset (which is not quantifiable to a high degree of precision but that doesn't meant it's not quantifiable at all, you can at least reduce most 'measurements' to a binary range) is irrelevant to its significance. The comment you replied to specifically said it would be hard to do a rigorous study of.
  - filoleg 7y ago
    ok, you can replace that word with "mood and the general train of thoughts at the moment". Happier now? Everyone knows what it means, and it is way shorter than what I have in the quotes. Pretending it isn't a legitimate word (despite it having an actual entry in the dictionary) doesn't make you look more impressive.
reroute1 7y ago
The thing about that is it's hard to not have anecdotal evidence about a phenomenon when the item of study is an illegal drug. That doesn't mean there is no effect though and this one seems very logical. Also not exactly the same but you don't need to try it with schedule one psychedelics this can be noticed with things like alcohol
- wufufufu 7y ago
  "Headspace" is presumably legal? And it's not a defined medical or scientific concept.
  - reroute1 7y ago
    Mood, Affect, setting... I think these are well defined terms. That is what's meant by headspace. However it's not legal to test this in conjunction with illegal drugs, even scientifically they can't get approval in many cases.
therein 7y ago
Genuinely, there is a reason why it is called a "trip". You either need enough experience to guide yourself or you need a tour guide to make sure you have a good experience. One of the first times we did LSD with my friends in college, in the end we all were thinking "this is why they call it a trip. we all went somewhere together and came back". Set and setting matter a lot and it isn't bro-science. You're talking about drugs that take your mental chatter and external stimuli and allow them to flow freely. Anything bad or anxiety producing will get amplified and without the proper experience, it might spiral out of control.

filoleg 7y ago

>So if you have a bad experience from the drugs, it was because you weren't in a positive headspace? You can always test out this hypothesis by doing a tab of LSD from the same batch twice while controlling for your headspace. One day, you do it with a positive headspace, and another day you do it with a negative one. If you had a great experience the first time and a bad experience the second time, clearly the headspace alignment made the difference. Yes, this kind of testing isn't as rigorous as it would have been for a legitimate scientific trial (which I bet we will see in the future as the research into the area accelerates), but imo it is more than just a No True Scotsman backed by broscience. And of course, no one says that a negative headspace is the only reason for someone to have a bad experience, there are others for sure. For example, certain people with predisposition for schizophrenia probably should abstain as well. AFAIK psychedelics won't cause a schizophrenia in an otherwise healthy person, but I heard it might kick off an early onset if you were going to get a schizophrenia in a few years without any psychedelics anyways.

wufufufu 7y ago
"headspace" doesn't mean anything
- AnthonBerg 7y ago
  You don’t understand anything when you read or hear the word?
- Analog24 7y ago
  Yes, it does. It's quite literally in the dictionary: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/headspace https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/headspace
  - wufufufu 7y ago
    Ok have fun performing psychological experiments on your brain using "informal" merriam webster definitions
    - Analog24 7y ago
      You're just being pedantic and grasping at straws. Whether or not we're using the scientific term for an individual's mindset (which is not quantifiable to a high degree of precision but that doesn't meant it's not quantifiable at all, you can at least reduce most 'measurements' to a binary range) is irrelevant to its significance. The comment you replied to specifically said it would be hard to do a rigorous study of.
- filoleg 7y ago
  ok, you can replace that word with "mood and the general train of thoughts at the moment". Happier now? Everyone knows what it means, and it is way shorter than what I have in the quotes. Pretending it isn't a legitimate word (despite it having an actual entry in the dictionary) doesn't make you look more impressive.

reroute1 7y ago

The thing about that is it's hard to not have anecdotal evidence about a phenomenon when the item of study is an illegal drug. That doesn't mean there is no effect though and this one seems very logical. Also not exactly the same but you don't need to try it with schedule one psychedelics this can be noticed with things like alcohol

wufufufu 7y ago
"Headspace" is presumably legal? And it's not a defined medical or scientific concept.
- reroute1 7y ago
  Mood, Affect, setting... I think these are well defined terms. That is what's meant by headspace. However it's not legal to test this in conjunction with illegal drugs, even scientifically they can't get approval in many cases.

therein 7y ago

Genuinely, there is a reason why it is called a "trip". You either need enough experience to guide yourself or you need a tour guide to make sure you have a good experience. One of the first times we did LSD with my friends in college, in the end we all were thinking "this is why they call it a trip. we all went somewhere together and came back". Set and setting matter a lot and it isn't bro-science. You're talking about drugs that take your mental chatter and external stimuli and allow them to flow freely. Anything bad or anxiety producing will get amplified and without the proper experience, it might spiral out of control.