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It seems that their data is mostly coming from their own user base (the discord data is biased as they admitted), which is mostly comprised of programmers and o

by whack 7y ago

It seems that their data is mostly coming from their own user base (the discord data is biased as they admitted), which is mostly comprised of programmers and other techies. I don't know how far this generalizes to the rest of society. I personally like dark mode during night time, but almost always prefer light mode by default. There's just something about dark mode that is... gloomy and depressing. It feels like an overcast day, whereas light mode feels like a bright sunny day. I've noticed that most techies do prefer dark mode, and I also recall reading that techies are disproportionately night owls - I wonder if there's a correlation there. I suspect though that this preference is reversed for the general population.

jolmg 7y ago
If system-wide themes really worked, I'd probably be switching now and then between light and dark themes. Dark mode is kind of gloomy but it's also easier on the eyes.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  System wide themes used to work, and we didn't need an explicit Dark Mode because of it. Sadly, computer interfaces have regressed significantly from 1995.
- jiofih 7y ago
  Latest releases of MacOS (and iOS) have it, and you can even set it to go into dark mode automatically at night.
  - jolmg 7y ago
    Well, I meant something with more freedom of styling, not just some established light and dark theme. Like change the colors of system-wide buttons, text inputs, window title-bars, tabs, etc. Change the system-wide accenting color to Red, Blue, Green, Gold, etc.
    - jiofih 7y ago
      You can also change the accent color on MacOS! If you want more customization than there’s Linux.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
> I've noticed that most techies do prefer dark mode, and I also recall reading that techies are disproportionately night owls - I wonder if there's a correlation there. If I may be mildly unflattering for a moment, I think it's just a trendiness thing. Dark Mode looks more like a terminal and signals "I'm a real big-boy hackerman" or something. If someone has real data showing it actually causes less eyestrain or something, I'm willing to change that opinion.
- whycombagator 7y ago
  I'm sure everyone has their own specific reasons. And what you suggest might be true for a subset of individuals. For me, I prefer dark mode for a couple of sight related reasons: - It makes my eye floaters much harder to notice - Light backgrounds on screens, especially white, tend to hurt my eyes more than darker ones
  - lloeki 7y ago
    > Light backgrounds on screens, especially white, tend to hurt my eyes more than darker ones It was (and still is, but read on) for me until I realised that it was not light mode but backlight that was too strong. It was actually initially better with dark modes, low contrast stuff like zenburn, or (solarize light or dark) but only got worse later. The moment I realised that was a backlight (and ambient light, including temperature) issue I moved back to light mode. The above mentioned solutions have the nasty side effect that people usually increase backlight, which just makes things even worse!
    - whycombagator 7y ago
      I usually have the brightness on all my devices very low (10-20% typically, but have to go 100% if I’m outside and it’s particularly bright). I also use f.lux/nightmode on all devices.
      - Macha 7y ago
        My biggest problem with my Surface Go is the backlight doesn't go low enough. 100% is brighter than my phone goes and 0% is still feels like looking at 75% on my phone. My phone is currently set to 10%
burtonator 7y ago
Thanks. I tried to find more data but it's scarce. I would love to get more data for more apps as I think it's definitely biased around people who spend a LOT of time staring at text. I'm a programmer so spend a ton of time in my IDE. Polar is designed for people that read a LOT so dark mode really matters to them. When you're reading 100s of PDFs having a dark mode is kind of important! In retrospect I'm kicking myself not working on this sooner.
- nck4222 7y ago
  I would say you have an interesting article here, and your user poll is interesting too. But like you said you don't really have the data to back up this claim, so it just comes off as really click-baity. It worked, as I've never heard of your product and am clicking around the site now, but it's disappointing none the less.
  - burtonator 7y ago
    Well, one of the reasons to blog is to get other people who can submit more data. Further, I feel that if there was a specific demand for white that people would switch. ... It definitely would be great to get more apps to release their data. I reached out to IntelliJ about IDEA data but I didn't hear anything back.
  - melq 7y ago
    I think it would be fine if the title just said "95% of our users prefer dark mode" rather than trying to generalize it to all people.
- chipotle_coyote 7y ago
  Most of the data that I've found suggests that dark text on a light background is measurably more legible than the reverse. This effect is increased for people with astigmatism -- which is about half the population, so that's not insignificant. There's a lot of pushback I've seen when studies like that get cited: they're old, they weren't about programmers, etc. And, maybe, but even though we're staring at LCD panels now rather than CRTs, light is light light and vision is vision. It's not about how much light is "shining into your eyes" as much as it is about visual acuity, and it's at least worth trying light mode and just... turning down the brightness on your monitor a little. Also, turning up the ambient light in the room. If your environment is so dark that the backlighting on your keyboard is visible, then you've tacitly designed your environment to make light mode blinding and uncomfortable, so you're not really giving it a fair shake. I'd like to see studies about whether alternating between dark and light mode occasionally will help prevent your eyes from getting tired as quickly; my suspicion is yes, because it certainly does feel that way to me. But a lot of things that seem intuitively true don't stand up to scrutiny.
__s 7y ago
I'm not a night owl. I prefer dark mode. It matters when you're staring at a screen for more than 12 hours a day
- burtonator 7y ago
  Agreed. Anything more than an hour or two and it's definitely nicer to have a dark mode. I used dark mode in IDEA for YEARS and I can't believe I didn't push harder to have a dark mode in Polar earlier. This is why it's good to listen to your users!
- codetrotter 7y ago
  What we really really need is cheap, high resolution, fast refresh eInk displays. I’m talking 27 inch, 4K resolution, color (even just 4096 colors might be enough for a lot of software development work) monitors running at 60Hz or higher, with eInk technology and backlight that can be dialed all the way from full brightness to no backlight at all, which should be sold at a price somewhere between the same and 2x to 3x or 4x the price of what LED displays of similar size and specs currently cost today. I hope we may see that on the market one day.
  - lostlogin 7y ago
    Laptop in the sun outside. It’s the dream.
    - inciampati 7y ago
      I used to use my OLPC xo-1 this way. It was a dream. E-ink screens can make dark mode irrelevant. But the market for them hasn't been built, and the tech isn't effective at fast refresh. Yet.
  - elwell 7y ago
    I would pay good money for this.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > It matters when you're staring at a screen for more than 12 hours a day I stare at a screen for more than 12 hours most days, but I strongly prefer light mode over dark, so I'm not sure the amount of screen time is what makes the difference.
Insanity 7y ago
I'm a night owl and dislike dark mode. Prefer solarized light theme everywhere :)
JeremyBanks 7y ago
I'd definitely take the Discord data with a heap of salt: I prefer light themes, but I use dark in Discord because Discord's light theme is terrible and hurts my eyes.
Kaveren 7y ago
Discord has one of the worst light modes I've ever seen. Until recently, the sidebar taking up 20% of your screen on the left didn't even change colors, it remained in dark mode regardless of if you swapped. Also note that the role colors most servers assign contrast way too poorly with light background (bright yellow on white). And dark mode is the default. Worst example to try to extrapolate from.
- RenRav 7y ago
  I like the light theme being split between dark and light, though it feels weird and unfinished.
loopdoend 7y ago
I’m a night owl and prefer day mode due to the wakeful effects you described, but I keep Night Shift on 24/7 to reduce blues.
john-radio 7y ago
> I recall reading that techies are disproportionately night owls A "night owl" is someone who enjoys being awake and active at night more than the average person, but most people who describe themselves as "night owls" still spend most of their waking hours during the day, especially when they are working, especially if they work in software development at a normal 9-5 job.
sojmq 7y ago
I haven't read the article but the Discord light mode is TERRIBLE. Terrible contrast and half the interface remains in dark mode. That's why I don't use it. Otherwise I would. So it's kinda forced dark mode for Discord. That stat can not be trusted. https://i.redd.it/qre9cvey3r0z.png https://i.redd.it/qre9cvey3r0z.png
- rnotaro 7y ago
  Are you sure you don't have a custom theme installed? Mine looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/FBBh1tm.png https://i.imgur.com/FBBh1tm.png
  - sojmq 7y ago
    It's a screenshot I've found on the Internet. Perhaps they've updated it; I haven't used Discord in months.
- burtonator 7y ago
  They fixed it... I talked about it in my post.
markosaric 7y ago
Need better evidence to believe this stat too but I do prefer the dark mode personally. For what it's worth, I've been running the dark mode on my site for almost 3 weeks now. 60,000+ visitors since the change and no complaints for now.

by whack 7y ago

jolmg 7y ago

If system-wide themes really worked, I'd probably be switching now and then between light and dark themes. Dark mode is kind of gloomy but it's also easier on the eyes.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
System wide themes used to work, and we didn't need an explicit Dark Mode because of it. Sadly, computer interfaces have regressed significantly from 1995.
jiofih 7y ago
Latest releases of MacOS (and iOS) have it, and you can even set it to go into dark mode automatically at night.
- jolmg 7y ago
  Well, I meant something with more freedom of styling, not just some established light and dark theme. Like change the colors of system-wide buttons, text inputs, window title-bars, tabs, etc. Change the system-wide accenting color to Red, Blue, Green, Gold, etc.
  - jiofih 7y ago
    You can also change the accent color on MacOS! If you want more customization than there’s Linux.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago

> I've noticed that most techies do prefer dark mode, and I also recall reading that techies are disproportionately night owls - I wonder if there's a correlation there. If I may be mildly unflattering for a moment, I think it's just a trendiness thing. Dark Mode looks more like a terminal and signals "I'm a real big-boy hackerman" or something. If someone has real data showing it actually causes less eyestrain or something, I'm willing to change that opinion.

whycombagator 7y ago
I'm sure everyone has their own specific reasons. And what you suggest might be true for a subset of individuals. For me, I prefer dark mode for a couple of sight related reasons: - It makes my eye floaters much harder to notice - Light backgrounds on screens, especially white, tend to hurt my eyes more than darker ones
- lloeki 7y ago
  > Light backgrounds on screens, especially white, tend to hurt my eyes more than darker ones It was (and still is, but read on) for me until I realised that it was not light mode but backlight that was too strong. It was actually initially better with dark modes, low contrast stuff like zenburn, or (solarize light or dark) but only got worse later. The moment I realised that was a backlight (and ambient light, including temperature) issue I moved back to light mode. The above mentioned solutions have the nasty side effect that people usually increase backlight, which just makes things even worse!
  - whycombagator 7y ago
    I usually have the brightness on all my devices very low (10-20% typically, but have to go 100% if I’m outside and it’s particularly bright). I also use f.lux/nightmode on all devices.
    - Macha 7y ago
      My biggest problem with my Surface Go is the backlight doesn't go low enough. 100% is brighter than my phone goes and 0% is still feels like looking at 75% on my phone. My phone is currently set to 10%

burtonator 7y ago

Thanks. I tried to find more data but it's scarce. I would love to get more data for more apps as I think it's definitely biased around people who spend a LOT of time staring at text. I'm a programmer so spend a ton of time in my IDE. Polar is designed for people that read a LOT so dark mode really matters to them. When you're reading 100s of PDFs having a dark mode is kind of important! In retrospect I'm kicking myself not working on this sooner.

nck4222 7y ago
I would say you have an interesting article here, and your user poll is interesting too. But like you said you don't really have the data to back up this claim, so it just comes off as really click-baity. It worked, as I've never heard of your product and am clicking around the site now, but it's disappointing none the less.
- burtonator 7y ago
  Well, one of the reasons to blog is to get other people who can submit more data. Further, I feel that if there was a specific demand for white that people would switch. ... It definitely would be great to get more apps to release their data. I reached out to IntelliJ about IDEA data but I didn't hear anything back.
- melq 7y ago
  I think it would be fine if the title just said "95% of our users prefer dark mode" rather than trying to generalize it to all people.
chipotle_coyote 7y ago
Most of the data that I've found suggests that dark text on a light background is measurably more legible than the reverse. This effect is increased for people with astigmatism -- which is about half the population, so that's not insignificant. There's a lot of pushback I've seen when studies like that get cited: they're old, they weren't about programmers, etc. And, maybe, but even though we're staring at LCD panels now rather than CRTs, light is light light and vision is vision. It's not about how much light is "shining into your eyes" as much as it is about visual acuity, and it's at least worth trying light mode and just... turning down the brightness on your monitor a little. Also, turning up the ambient light in the room. If your environment is so dark that the backlighting on your keyboard is visible, then you've tacitly designed your environment to make light mode blinding and uncomfortable, so you're not really giving it a fair shake. I'd like to see studies about whether alternating between dark and light mode occasionally will help prevent your eyes from getting tired as quickly; my suspicion is yes, because it certainly does feel that way to me. But a lot of things that seem intuitively true don't stand up to scrutiny.

__s 7y ago

I'm not a night owl. I prefer dark mode. It matters when you're staring at a screen for more than 12 hours a day

burtonator 7y ago
Agreed. Anything more than an hour or two and it's definitely nicer to have a dark mode. I used dark mode in IDEA for YEARS and I can't believe I didn't push harder to have a dark mode in Polar earlier. This is why it's good to listen to your users!
codetrotter 7y ago
What we really really need is cheap, high resolution, fast refresh eInk displays. I’m talking 27 inch, 4K resolution, color (even just 4096 colors might be enough for a lot of software development work) monitors running at 60Hz or higher, with eInk technology and backlight that can be dialed all the way from full brightness to no backlight at all, which should be sold at a price somewhere between the same and 2x to 3x or 4x the price of what LED displays of similar size and specs currently cost today. I hope we may see that on the market one day.
- lostlogin 7y ago
  Laptop in the sun outside. It’s the dream.
  - inciampati 7y ago
    I used to use my OLPC xo-1 this way. It was a dream. E-ink screens can make dark mode irrelevant. But the market for them hasn't been built, and the tech isn't effective at fast refresh. Yet.
- elwell 7y ago
  I would pay good money for this.
JohnFen 7y ago
> It matters when you're staring at a screen for more than 12 hours a day I stare at a screen for more than 12 hours most days, but I strongly prefer light mode over dark, so I'm not sure the amount of screen time is what makes the difference.

Insanity 7y ago

I'm a night owl and dislike dark mode. Prefer solarized light theme everywhere :)

JeremyBanks 7y ago

I'd definitely take the Discord data with a heap of salt: I prefer light themes, but I use dark in Discord because Discord's light theme is terrible and hurts my eyes.

Kaveren 7y ago

Discord has one of the worst light modes I've ever seen. Until recently, the sidebar taking up 20% of your screen on the left didn't even change colors, it remained in dark mode regardless of if you swapped. Also note that the role colors most servers assign contrast way too poorly with light background (bright yellow on white). And dark mode is the default. Worst example to try to extrapolate from.

RenRav 7y ago
I like the light theme being split between dark and light, though it feels weird and unfinished.

loopdoend 7y ago

I’m a night owl and prefer day mode due to the wakeful effects you described, but I keep Night Shift on 24/7 to reduce blues.

john-radio 7y ago

> I recall reading that techies are disproportionately night owls A "night owl" is someone who enjoys being awake and active at night more than the average person, but most people who describe themselves as "night owls" still spend most of their waking hours during the day, especially when they are working, especially if they work in software development at a normal 9-5 job.

sojmq 7y ago

I haven't read the article but the Discord light mode is TERRIBLE. Terrible contrast and half the interface remains in dark mode. That's why I don't use it. Otherwise I would. So it's kinda forced dark mode for Discord. That stat can not be trusted. https://i.redd.it/qre9cvey3r0z.png https://i.redd.it/qre9cvey3r0z.png

rnotaro 7y ago
Are you sure you don't have a custom theme installed? Mine looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/FBBh1tm.png https://i.imgur.com/FBBh1tm.png
- sojmq 7y ago
  It's a screenshot I've found on the Internet. Perhaps they've updated it; I haven't used Discord in months.
burtonator 7y ago
They fixed it... I talked about it in my post.

markosaric 7y ago

Need better evidence to believe this stat too but I do prefer the dark mode personally. For what it's worth, I've been running the dark mode on my site for almost 3 weeks now. 60,000+ visitors since the change and no complaints for now.