4 ms·

A "public park" is simply owned by a public entity, it does not mean you get unlimited unrestricted access to it. If the city/county/state/fed decided to wall i

A "public park" is simply owned by a public entity, it does not mean you get unlimited unrestricted access to it. If the city/county/state/fed decided to wall it off and not allow anyone in it, it would be their prerogative. If I (a private individual/entity) owned a 60 acre flatland park, and one day decided not to allow people on my land, is that not my right as land owner? If we allow a person to own the beach, then it is their property to disallow trespassers. The better question would be why do we allow ownership of a beach.

daenz 7y ago
>The better question would be why do we allow ownership of a beach. Devil's advocate: why do we place such a high value on a "beach" vs any other kind of land? Is there something extra precious about where the water meets the land?
- learc83 7y ago
  Yes there is. Just look at the average property values of beach front property, riverfront property etc... There are other "special" types of land as well with additional value that governments have decided to regulate differently.
  - daenz 7y ago
    I acknowledge that it is valued differently, I'm asking why we collectively do it.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      Because beaches are nice. Same reason we value ice cream over poop.
    - SimbaOnSteroids 7y ago
      People like it, that's supply and demand in effect.
    - jeffdavis 7y ago
      Access to navigable waterways has always been immensely valuable to humans. It's much easier to trade, travel, and transport.
      - big_chungus 7y ago
        Have you heard of anyone who has been unable to trade, travel, or transport because he could not use Vinod Khosla's beach as a loading dock, port, and harbor? Waterways have ports which are often publicly-owned or operated for commercial use.
  - jedberg 7y ago
    The answer is “tradition”. Shore access has been important to human civilization since before recorded history. Wars have been fought over shore access.
    - big_chungus 7y ago
      Not shoreline specifically, but commercially-viable shoreline. Ports, harbors, rivers, etc; places where you can move people and things to other places. Generic stretch of beach is not such a place.
- emmp 7y ago
  There's a lot less of it than non beach front land for one. It also has pretty universal recreational purposes. People love to go to beaches and swim, sunbathe, picnic, surf, play volleyball, etc. I'm surprised it's utility is even being questioned, this is a very strong cultural norm.
  - daenz 7y ago
    You can sunbathe, picnic, and play volleyball on any other land. Surfing is relatively new, and swimming isn't unique to oceans. >I'm surprised it's utility is even being questioned, this is a very strong cultural norm. In a world where even the most fundamental cultural norms are being questioned and upended, you're surprised that someone asks why a beach is so much more important than other land?
    - urbanjunkie 7y ago
      Do you find that your autism makes it hard for you to understand human beings?
- stronglikedan 7y ago
  > Is there something extra precious about where the water meets the land? Absolutely. Maybe not tangibly precious, but anyone whose ever stood on a beach and looked out over the ocean knows that there's definitely something special about it.
  - ggreer 7y ago
    Is this not also true of many mountaintops, waterfalls, and canyons? Yet we allow private ownership of those.
    - beerandt 7y ago
      There's a theory that we're hardwired to be drawn to shoreline, as accessing the resources of tidal zones would have been a definite competitive advantage for our ancestors. Our natural obsession with tracking the moon also plays into this, as a way of predicting when tidal conditions are best to forage/fish/etc. It's analogous to the theory where marathon hunting contributed to our physical endurance, brain power and predictive abilities, upright running, sweating, etc. Both theories attempt to explain the general sense of pleasure we get from visiting the beach and long distance running, respectively.
big_chungus 7y ago
> The better question would be why do we allow ownership of a beach. Because people really want beaches, but aren't willing to pay taxes to buy back what is now private property. Fifth amendment says the gov't must pay for private property, and the California law is arguably un-constitutional. Just buy a path under eminent domain; problem solved. Honestly, this seems like an expression of resentment against a rich guy as much as anything, as evinced by others proposing to take boats to the beach and bang on drums.

daenz 7y ago

>The better question would be why do we allow ownership of a beach. Devil's advocate: why do we place such a high value on a "beach" vs any other kind of land? Is there something extra precious about where the water meets the land?

learc83 7y ago
Yes there is. Just look at the average property values of beach front property, riverfront property etc... There are other "special" types of land as well with additional value that governments have decided to regulate differently.
- daenz 7y ago
  I acknowledge that it is valued differently, I'm asking why we collectively do it.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Because beaches are nice. Same reason we value ice cream over poop.
  - SimbaOnSteroids 7y ago
    People like it, that's supply and demand in effect.
  - jeffdavis 7y ago
    Access to navigable waterways has always been immensely valuable to humans. It's much easier to trade, travel, and transport.
    - big_chungus 7y ago
      Have you heard of anyone who has been unable to trade, travel, or transport because he could not use Vinod Khosla's beach as a loading dock, port, and harbor? Waterways have ports which are often publicly-owned or operated for commercial use.
- jedberg 7y ago
  The answer is “tradition”. Shore access has been important to human civilization since before recorded history. Wars have been fought over shore access.
  - big_chungus 7y ago
    Not shoreline specifically, but commercially-viable shoreline. Ports, harbors, rivers, etc; places where you can move people and things to other places. Generic stretch of beach is not such a place.
emmp 7y ago
There's a lot less of it than non beach front land for one. It also has pretty universal recreational purposes. People love to go to beaches and swim, sunbathe, picnic, surf, play volleyball, etc. I'm surprised it's utility is even being questioned, this is a very strong cultural norm.
- daenz 7y ago
  You can sunbathe, picnic, and play volleyball on any other land. Surfing is relatively new, and swimming isn't unique to oceans. >I'm surprised it's utility is even being questioned, this is a very strong cultural norm. In a world where even the most fundamental cultural norms are being questioned and upended, you're surprised that someone asks why a beach is so much more important than other land?
  - urbanjunkie 7y ago
    Do you find that your autism makes it hard for you to understand human beings?
stronglikedan 7y ago
> Is there something extra precious about where the water meets the land? Absolutely. Maybe not tangibly precious, but anyone whose ever stood on a beach and looked out over the ocean knows that there's definitely something special about it.
- ggreer 7y ago
  Is this not also true of many mountaintops, waterfalls, and canyons? Yet we allow private ownership of those.
  - beerandt 7y ago
    There's a theory that we're hardwired to be drawn to shoreline, as accessing the resources of tidal zones would have been a definite competitive advantage for our ancestors. Our natural obsession with tracking the moon also plays into this, as a way of predicting when tidal conditions are best to forage/fish/etc. It's analogous to the theory where marathon hunting contributed to our physical endurance, brain power and predictive abilities, upright running, sweating, etc. Both theories attempt to explain the general sense of pleasure we get from visiting the beach and long distance running, respectively.

big_chungus 7y ago

> The better question would be why do we allow ownership of a beach. Because people really want beaches, but aren't willing to pay taxes to buy back what is now private property. Fifth amendment says the gov't must pay for private property, and the California law is arguably un-constitutional. Just buy a path under eminent domain; problem solved. Honestly, this seems like an expression of resentment against a rich guy as much as anything, as evinced by others proposing to take boats to the beach and bang on drums.