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I'm normally not one for "conspiracy theories", but I can't shake this idea that there might be some really clever marketing happening here. Tesla releases a "

I'm normally not one for "conspiracy theories", but I can't shake this idea that there might be some really clever marketing happening here. Tesla releases a "clearly one-sided" marketing video, and waits for the inevitable backlash from social media. Secretly Tesla knows their truck will win in just about any 1v1 competition with a Ford (at least when it comes to towing power or max torque), so they just wait for more impartial tests which will all reaffirm the results from the first. And then they get to not only extend how long people are talking about it, but they also get "impartial" tests which can help convince those who don't trust Tesla at all. I mean it's one thing to see Tesla show that they can tow more, but it's another to see your favorite auto blogger or tv program show it. And at the end of the day this is just another good rivalry, which I absolutely love! I love seeing Porsche and Tesla take shots at one another about performance around the ring, and I'd love to see Ford and Tesla get in a similar battle. Each company one-upping the other with every release, each one trying to make the better vehicle both on paper and in various tests.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
The goal is not for Ford to bring out their beefiest ICE pickup to try to win. It is to force them to bring out their EV prototype F150 model, as it's the only way to "win" against Cybertruck (due to friction, torque, etc). An unloaded F150 with an internal combustion power train and traditional torque converter is never going to beat an EV with a 1200 lb battery and torque from 0 RPMs (Cybertruck is putting down at least 1000 ft lbs of torque, perhaps more, based on a tri motor config). Tesla can't build a million electric F150s a year (~1 million internal combustion F150s are currently sold each year). Ford can. They might even buy powertrains from Tesla. Ford's EV team should send a nice gift to Elon.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >An unloaded F150 with an internal combustion power train and traditional torque converter is never going to beat an EV with a 1200 lb battery and torque from 0 RPMs Put the F150 on some high performance season specific tires and put the Tesla on some economy brand E-rated all seasons and the F150 will win every time and it won't be obvious to 99.9% of observers.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    This is not how the friction coefficient works. Swapping tires isn't going to negate the weight differential between an ICE truck (heavy engine, empty bed over half the drivetrain) and an EV battery pack applying downward force across the entire sled, nor EV traction control vs a torque converter and the disadvantaged mechanical transmission attempting to vector torque. "Physics is the law, everything else is a recommendation." Fundamentally, an internal combustion powertrain is an inferior mode of locomotion (efficiency losses all the way from the well to the cylinders to the wheels), and energy storage has finally caught up to support the rest of the superior (and arguably, more simple) powertrain an EV provides (Train locomotives have used electric motors for decades, with a diesel generator; there is no transmission that exists that can reliably distribute that torque, for example).
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      >This is not how the friction coefficient works Yes, it very much is. The harder tire has a lower friction resulting in the total force to break static friction being lesser than that of the lighter object with the higher friction tires. Go get some cleats and push a heavy object around on ice if you want to see this in action. > the weight differential between an ICE truck (heavy engine, empty bed over half the drivetrain) and an EV battery pack applying downward force across the entire sled, The weight transfer (when the truck tries to rotate the wheels and can't the truck tries to rotate about the rear axle) mostly negates this. Watch some videos of pulling trucks and tractor. By your reasoning the massive weights they hang in front of the front axle would be counterproductive because they would remove weight from the rear axle. In practice enough of the weight transfers to the rear axle to result in a net improvement. >nor EV traction control vs a torque converter and the disadvantaged mechanical transmission attempting to vector torque. Your statement is fantasy. Both systems are inputting torque to a differential (presumably an open one since these are base spec 2wd models). The traction control is going to modulate the brakes on the spinning tire to fudge the same effect as a more conventional traction aid installed in the differential would provide. Electronic traction control introduces yet another variable to the equation, some traction control systems behave like an electronic nanny and cut throttle. Some just assume the customer is right and slam the brake on the spinning wheel. I'm going to assume they both have the latter type because it makes this comparison simple but any vehicle equipped with the former type is going to be at a disadvantage.
neogodless 7y ago
That's not what "conspiracy" means. But yes, it could absolutely be intentional marketing. How would we know what his intentions were? Or are we just crediting Musk with the eventual results?
eightysixfour 7y ago
For me it was either your theory above or they slapped the prototype together in a very short period of time and just grabbed the first F-150 an employee volunteered. It does setup a perfect situation where they slowly ramp up the stakes ending with it dragging an F350 backwards or something.
notatoad 7y ago
>Secretly Tesla knows their truck will win in just about any 1v1 competition with a Ford i'm not sure how this counts as clever marketing? making a product that's legitimately better than the competition is the opposite of clever marketing.
- 666lumberjack 7y ago
  Making a better product isn't marketing. Making everyone aware your product is better is, though.
- criddell 7y ago
  A superior product can be marketed poorly, right? Well this is must a superior product and good marketing.
- ortusdux 7y ago
  If I understand them correctly, Klathmon is claiming that the marketing dept at Tesla is leveraging Cunningham's Law to get free publicity from reviewers/bloggers/you-tubers.

toomuchtodo 7y ago

The goal is not for Ford to bring out their beefiest ICE pickup to try to win. It is to force them to bring out their EV prototype F150 model, as it's the only way to "win" against Cybertruck (due to friction, torque, etc). An unloaded F150 with an internal combustion power train and traditional torque converter is never going to beat an EV with a 1200 lb battery and torque from 0 RPMs (Cybertruck is putting down at least 1000 ft lbs of torque, perhaps more, based on a tri motor config). Tesla can't build a million electric F150s a year (~1 million internal combustion F150s are currently sold each year). Ford can. They might even buy powertrains from Tesla. Ford's EV team should send a nice gift to Elon.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>An unloaded F150 with an internal combustion power train and traditional torque converter is never going to beat an EV with a 1200 lb battery and torque from 0 RPMs Put the F150 on some high performance season specific tires and put the Tesla on some economy brand E-rated all seasons and the F150 will win every time and it won't be obvious to 99.9% of observers.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  This is not how the friction coefficient works. Swapping tires isn't going to negate the weight differential between an ICE truck (heavy engine, empty bed over half the drivetrain) and an EV battery pack applying downward force across the entire sled, nor EV traction control vs a torque converter and the disadvantaged mechanical transmission attempting to vector torque. "Physics is the law, everything else is a recommendation." Fundamentally, an internal combustion powertrain is an inferior mode of locomotion (efficiency losses all the way from the well to the cylinders to the wheels), and energy storage has finally caught up to support the rest of the superior (and arguably, more simple) powertrain an EV provides (Train locomotives have used electric motors for decades, with a diesel generator; there is no transmission that exists that can reliably distribute that torque, for example).
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    >This is not how the friction coefficient works Yes, it very much is. The harder tire has a lower friction resulting in the total force to break static friction being lesser than that of the lighter object with the higher friction tires. Go get some cleats and push a heavy object around on ice if you want to see this in action. > the weight differential between an ICE truck (heavy engine, empty bed over half the drivetrain) and an EV battery pack applying downward force across the entire sled, The weight transfer (when the truck tries to rotate the wheels and can't the truck tries to rotate about the rear axle) mostly negates this. Watch some videos of pulling trucks and tractor. By your reasoning the massive weights they hang in front of the front axle would be counterproductive because they would remove weight from the rear axle. In practice enough of the weight transfers to the rear axle to result in a net improvement. >nor EV traction control vs a torque converter and the disadvantaged mechanical transmission attempting to vector torque. Your statement is fantasy. Both systems are inputting torque to a differential (presumably an open one since these are base spec 2wd models). The traction control is going to modulate the brakes on the spinning tire to fudge the same effect as a more conventional traction aid installed in the differential would provide. Electronic traction control introduces yet another variable to the equation, some traction control systems behave like an electronic nanny and cut throttle. Some just assume the customer is right and slam the brake on the spinning wheel. I'm going to assume they both have the latter type because it makes this comparison simple but any vehicle equipped with the former type is going to be at a disadvantage.

neogodless 7y ago

That's not what "conspiracy" means. But yes, it could absolutely be intentional marketing. How would we know what his intentions were? Or are we just crediting Musk with the eventual results?

eightysixfour 7y ago

For me it was either your theory above or they slapped the prototype together in a very short period of time and just grabbed the first F-150 an employee volunteered. It does setup a perfect situation where they slowly ramp up the stakes ending with it dragging an F350 backwards or something.

notatoad 7y ago

>Secretly Tesla knows their truck will win in just about any 1v1 competition with a Ford i'm not sure how this counts as clever marketing? making a product that's legitimately better than the competition is the opposite of clever marketing.

666lumberjack 7y ago
Making a better product isn't marketing. Making everyone aware your product is better is, though.
criddell 7y ago
A superior product can be marketed poorly, right? Well this is must a superior product and good marketing.
ortusdux 7y ago
If I understand them correctly, Klathmon is claiming that the marketing dept at Tesla is leveraging Cunningham's Law to get free publicity from reviewers/bloggers/you-tubers.