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I agree in principle, but in this case there's one side attempting to cut off all uncontrolled communication in and out of the country. It seems like an easy ch

by mkelly 16y ago

I agree in principle, but in this case there's one side attempting to cut off all uncontrolled communication in and out of the country. It seems like an easy choice to side against their position on communication.

qq66 16y ago
What if the revolution is successful but the current government is replaced with something far worse? Would you want to be part of a company that encouraged that?
- jbri 16y ago
  Yes, let's support brutal dictatorships on the off-chance that a revolution might result in an even more brutal dictatorship.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - hugh3 16y ago
    The sarcasm is unbefitting of the seriousness of the occasion. What if it's not an "off-chance" but a 90% probability. Or even a 50% probability? The situation the way I see it is this: currently the bad guys are in power. The opposition forces are the not-so-bad guys (liberal democracy types) and the much worse guys (radical Islamists). The Muslim Brotherhood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood) are, after all, not just radical Islamists -- they're pretty much the dudes who invented radical Islam. Their obtaining power would... well, it would be bad, especially for non-Muslims in Egypt. And probably anywhere else. My opinion on whom to support? Well, I'm just thankful that it's none of my fricking business and I can't do anything to change the situation anyway, so I don't really have to make a decision. But I am uncomfortable with the level of optimism I'm seeing from some western folks who assume the good guys will necessarily triumph (or worse, that the Muslim Brotherhood aren't really bad guys after all because they say they're not in favour of violence and they only want to form a unity government with the liberal forces whom they're totally not going to kick out at the earliest opportunity).
    - nkassis 16y ago
      The support for the Muslim brotherhood is overestimated. By the best data we can have they have about a 25% support rate. That is not enough in my view to take over. The situation in Egypt right now and in Iran during their revolution is very different.
    - aurem1 16y ago
      This is a valid concern. But by preaching democracy and human rights on the one hand and supporting dictators like Mubarak on the other, we just end up providing ammunition to radicals of all sorts and driving popular support towards them. Freedom of information is a human right or should be and kudos to Google for supporting it
    - khafra 16y ago
      "Support" isn't a fine-grained enough word. Selling the revolutionaries guillotines is probably bad. Providing them the means to tell their story to the world is probably good.
- elwin 16y ago
  A future government might or might not be worse, we can't tell. Supporting the current revolution and encouraging its future development into something far worse are separate issues until the revolution actually accomplishes something.
- mkelly 16y ago
  No, I wouldn't want to be part of a company that encouraged an oppressive new regime to rise to power, but I think that's a straw man. If an oppressive new regime rises, then it's bad because it's oppressive, and you couldn't blame it on the existence of freedom of communication during the revolution. Of course I don't speak for Google in any of this, but I think it's simply supporting the notion that, when in doubt, more freedom of communication is probably better. (At least at this point, where the status quo is currently, "cut off from the outside world".)

by mkelly 16y ago

qq66 16y ago

What if the revolution is successful but the current government is replaced with something far worse? Would you want to be part of a company that encouraged that?

jbri 16y ago
Yes, let's support brutal dictatorships on the off-chance that a revolution might result in an even more brutal dictatorship.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- hugh3 16y ago
  The sarcasm is unbefitting of the seriousness of the occasion. What if it's not an "off-chance" but a 90% probability. Or even a 50% probability? The situation the way I see it is this: currently the bad guys are in power. The opposition forces are the not-so-bad guys (liberal democracy types) and the much worse guys (radical Islamists). The Muslim Brotherhood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood) are, after all, not just radical Islamists -- they're pretty much the dudes who invented radical Islam. Their obtaining power would... well, it would be bad, especially for non-Muslims in Egypt. And probably anywhere else. My opinion on whom to support? Well, I'm just thankful that it's none of my fricking business and I can't do anything to change the situation anyway, so I don't really have to make a decision. But I am uncomfortable with the level of optimism I'm seeing from some western folks who assume the good guys will necessarily triumph (or worse, that the Muslim Brotherhood aren't really bad guys after all because they say they're not in favour of violence and they only want to form a unity government with the liberal forces whom they're totally not going to kick out at the earliest opportunity).
  - nkassis 16y ago
    The support for the Muslim brotherhood is overestimated. By the best data we can have they have about a 25% support rate. That is not enough in my view to take over. The situation in Egypt right now and in Iran during their revolution is very different.
  - aurem1 16y ago
    This is a valid concern. But by preaching democracy and human rights on the one hand and supporting dictators like Mubarak on the other, we just end up providing ammunition to radicals of all sorts and driving popular support towards them. Freedom of information is a human right or should be and kudos to Google for supporting it
  - khafra 16y ago
    "Support" isn't a fine-grained enough word. Selling the revolutionaries guillotines is probably bad. Providing them the means to tell their story to the world is probably good.
elwin 16y ago
A future government might or might not be worse, we can't tell. Supporting the current revolution and encouraging its future development into something far worse are separate issues until the revolution actually accomplishes something.
mkelly 16y ago
No, I wouldn't want to be part of a company that encouraged an oppressive new regime to rise to power, but I think that's a straw man. If an oppressive new regime rises, then it's bad because it's oppressive, and you couldn't blame it on the existence of freedom of communication during the revolution. Of course I don't speak for Google in any of this, but I think it's simply supporting the notion that, when in doubt, more freedom of communication is probably better. (At least at this point, where the status quo is currently, "cut off from the outside world".)