4 ms·

Can't tell whether you're being ironic or not, but that's exactly why I left my home country, and two other countries I used to live in.

exergy 7y ago
I hope he is being ironic. Because it's not always possible to change companies for people, let alone entire countries.
kidintech 7y ago
He was ironic and you should accept that you are a coward.
- ggambetta 7y ago
  Nope. I got tired of trying to cope with the situation or try to influence it, realized that meaningful change would take decades if not longer than my lifespan, and thought "fuck it, I'll move to a place that works like I want now, not in three generations if I'm lucky".
  - coldtea 7y ago
    The reason the place you've landed works like you want "now", is that people didn't do the same when it needed to change -- and generations by generation helped improve it. If they just wanted to come, milk it, and leave on the first sign of trouble, it would be just like your country of origin.
    - SubuSS 7y ago
      Humans have specialized enough over time AND powers have become very entrenched. This agency you're talking about to improve the current system has reduced/disappeared over time because of that IMO. For example, Try as I might, I would suck at say building roads - just not strong enough. I will get done over 4x the time what an expert will need. I think this analogy applies to residence as well: I just don't feel I have the power to change a whole country or community. There is also a huge amount of force required to reverse a flywheel compared to adding to the current direction. Given a choice, people find the flywheel that's turning in their direction. I also would like to work on what my specialization is and build up on it rather than trying to learn to lay roads. It is clearly better to do that in a place supportive of the same rather than trying to change my 3rd world country to adopt it, build it etc. Some probably have that skill to build from ground up in a hostile place - it is a rare skill. You can also try and extend your argument to the millions of refugees / immigrants that flow away from poor spots and see if it holds: Why don't they stay and make their place better? Because more often than not, they just want to make a living and don't believe they can effect measurable change. And believe me, this doesn't come as easy as you think. A ton of legal / ably employed / tax paying immigrants with completely clear records live 10s of years in the USA for example without any permanence or citizenship. IOW I wish it was as simple as you make it sound to up and leave :)
coldtea 7y ago
Well, that describes a person who doesn't ever invest in a place and helps it improve, and who will jump ship in the first difficulty. Knowing that, a place who approves immigration applications to a new destination would be justified to just kick such persons out. Seeing that they see their new place is just some temporary residence of convenience. Or the new country could do them what they themselves do: have them work as long as they are capable (if they have some worthwhile capability) and then kick them out.
g_sch 7y ago
Everyone has to pick their battles. Sometimes they believe that it's not possible or practical to affect any meaningful amount of change. I can imagine trying to change an entire country as an individual can certainly feel that way. But sometimes people derive a great deal of meaning by fighting for things they believe in. And sometimes they win. I wouldn't be so quick to discount this impulse in people.

exergy 7y ago

I hope he is being ironic. Because it's not always possible to change companies for people, let alone entire countries.

kidintech 7y ago

He was ironic and you should accept that you are a coward.

ggambetta 7y ago
Nope. I got tired of trying to cope with the situation or try to influence it, realized that meaningful change would take decades if not longer than my lifespan, and thought "fuck it, I'll move to a place that works like I want now, not in three generations if I'm lucky".
- coldtea 7y ago
  The reason the place you've landed works like you want "now", is that people didn't do the same when it needed to change -- and generations by generation helped improve it. If they just wanted to come, milk it, and leave on the first sign of trouble, it would be just like your country of origin.
  - SubuSS 7y ago
    Humans have specialized enough over time AND powers have become very entrenched. This agency you're talking about to improve the current system has reduced/disappeared over time because of that IMO. For example, Try as I might, I would suck at say building roads - just not strong enough. I will get done over 4x the time what an expert will need. I think this analogy applies to residence as well: I just don't feel I have the power to change a whole country or community. There is also a huge amount of force required to reverse a flywheel compared to adding to the current direction. Given a choice, people find the flywheel that's turning in their direction. I also would like to work on what my specialization is and build up on it rather than trying to learn to lay roads. It is clearly better to do that in a place supportive of the same rather than trying to change my 3rd world country to adopt it, build it etc. Some probably have that skill to build from ground up in a hostile place - it is a rare skill. You can also try and extend your argument to the millions of refugees / immigrants that flow away from poor spots and see if it holds: Why don't they stay and make their place better? Because more often than not, they just want to make a living and don't believe they can effect measurable change. And believe me, this doesn't come as easy as you think. A ton of legal / ably employed / tax paying immigrants with completely clear records live 10s of years in the USA for example without any permanence or citizenship. IOW I wish it was as simple as you make it sound to up and leave :)

coldtea 7y ago

Well, that describes a person who doesn't ever invest in a place and helps it improve, and who will jump ship in the first difficulty. Knowing that, a place who approves immigration applications to a new destination would be justified to just kick such persons out. Seeing that they see their new place is just some temporary residence of convenience. Or the new country could do them what they themselves do: have them work as long as they are capable (if they have some worthwhile capability) and then kick them out.

g_sch 7y ago

Everyone has to pick their battles. Sometimes they believe that it's not possible or practical to affect any meaningful amount of change. I can imagine trying to change an entire country as an individual can certainly feel that way. But sometimes people derive a great deal of meaning by fighting for things they believe in. And sometimes they win. I wouldn't be so quick to discount this impulse in people.