6 ms·

Google’s statement is, in my opinion, disingenuous. Including personal information on your work calendar without using privacy controls is pretty bad practice,

Google’s statement is, in my opinion, disingenuous. Including personal information on your work calendar without using privacy controls is pretty bad practice, though obviously some people occasionally did it. There is no indication that this information was a target of the fired employees. There is also no indication that these personal events were included in screenshots “outside the company”. And that phrase encompasses a wide range of possibilities, I suspect that Google made it so general because the specifics would have sounded more benign. The statement in general is designed to cast the four in the worst possible light.

ggambetta 7y ago
> There is no indication that this information was a target of the fired employees. This bit? "The individual set up notifications so that they received emails detailing the work and whereabouts of those employees, including personal matters such as 1:1s, medical appointments and family activities"
- H8crilA 7y ago
  It's a little stalky, but yeah your work calendar is public on purpose - it's incredibly useful. People look it up before walking to your desk to chat and especially before setting up meetings. Just put a block of "busy", serves the same purpose. Nobody really cares if you're in a hospital or just running.
  - koheripbal 7y ago
    Does that give them the right to take a screenshot of it and send it out of the company?
    - H8crilA 7y ago
      You cannot take any screenshot or any document or any piece of code from any company. This is common sense, in addition to probably being a copyright issue. I'm not sure why would anyone expect to be respected by their employer without following this rule. I meant public as in "internally public".
- leereeves 7y ago
  > "The individual set up notifications so that they received emails detailing the work and whereabouts of those employees, including personal matters such as 1:1s, medical appointments and family activities" Which could mean simply: 1) individual subscribed to other employee's work calendars, which are visible to everyone within Google, 2) individual had calendar notifications turned on, and 3) other employees posted personal matters on their work calendars.
- Fiadliel 7y ago
  They obviously subscribed to work calendars in order to follow the work activities of those people. There is no other technical way to do that. There isn’t a way to separate out personal events — which shouldn’t be there, or at least should be marked private. That this information was included, does not indicate that it was a target; it does indicate that it was a useful way for Google to attack their actions.
  - eloisant 7y ago
    There is a way - use different calendars for work and home. Preferably with different accounts (work account vs personal account). You can then blend the 2 calendars either in the mobile app, or by importing one to the other account. I'm a bit surprised to hear some people would use their work calendar for personal activities, I don't see why you would do that.
    - praxulus 7y ago
      Right, but there's no way to separate out personal events when you subscribe to someone else's work calendar if they put personal events on their work calendar.
      - johnchristopher 7y ago
        But if you subcribe to such (edit: you colleague's) calendars for work purposes then why set up notifications for family activities ?
    - Fiadliel 7y ago
      I meant, there is no way for subscribers to a calendar to do that automatically. There are possible heuristics that could filter out clearly personal entries (keywords, etc.), but that feature would need to be implemented by (cough) Google. There are obvious ways for calendar owners to separate the information (which was not done in the instances that Google refer to).
    - jmkd 7y ago
      Because you have one life and busy days and personal and professional merge with a lunchtime meeting then an afternoon doctor's appointment etc. When you are back to back most days (common at Google) you can't be juggling multiple calendar accounts all the time, not least because a personal event doesn't show on your professional cal meaning someone can try to double book that slot.
- barrkel 7y ago
  This appears to be the default for G Suite settings, though. I can set up notifications to receive emails about work calendar entries for anyone in my company. Details around medical, family etc. are only visible if the employee adds that information to their work calendar.
scarejunba 7y ago
Irrespective of Google's statement, it appears that the people they were following felt unsafe. There's a little bit of "why didn't you tell me" to this. If someone were cataloging my every movement because I left my phone broadcasting to a bunch of Bluetooth beacons then sure it's my fault for doing that but if you're my coworker surely you'd tell me! If you instead were all like "Yup, it's bad practice to be doing that so of course I could tell where you were at all times. All I did was set up the beacons, man. You broadcast to them." I'd think they were pretty fucking weird. I'd seriously think they're a kook of some sort. Likewise, if you saw me put "Get kidney transplant" on my calendar and decided to subscribe to my calendar, then that's pretty fucking weird. I wouldn't buy "that's bad practice so I was allowed to stalk you". I'd be like "this dude is a fucking weirdo, can I go work elsewhere?". My calendar at every place I've worked has been public with private events for sensitive stuff but any time I put some private stuff public I'd expect someone to ask me if I meant to do that if they noticed.
- Fiadliel 7y ago
  I do appreciate that some people felt unsafe, but I wonder how exactly the messaging was made. Nobody ever came to me and asked how I felt about my work calendar being shared. You can't even get that information from Google. So this information on sharing was provided to particular people, and they were asked, "do you feel scared?". Presentation is everything, and if presented in terms of how their personal information was included, it can feel different compared to when shown in neutral terms. In addition, if these people were told that the four employees were dangerous or a threat, this will also colour their viewpoints. Bluetooth and kidney transplant arguments are about two hypothetical stories, and pointing out that if these had happened, it would be weird (well, yes it would, but that's not this story, they are very different).
  - pas 7y ago
    Why in the first place someone was screencapping someone's calendar? Were they trying to organize some impromptu meeting with a hihger-up? Who was scared exactly? How did this came to light? I mean if the recently fired folks tried to pressure some other group, that's bad, and it seems it has nothing to do with unionizing. But if they were trying to catch some elusive exec to have a statement from, that could be different. But there are no specifics anywhere, just "Google bad, union good" or "stalkers bad"
userbinator 7y ago
Including personal information on your work calendar without using privacy controls is pretty bad practice, though obviously some people occasionally did it. Given the attitude Google itself has towards privacy in general, I'm not at all surprised by this... if I remember correctly, employees are even expected (obliged?) to use their personal Google account for work. I'd never work for Google, one of the reasons being this "work-life mixing". I personally maintain a very strict "firewall" between personal and employee matters.
- darren_ 7y ago
  > if I remember correctly, employees are even expected (obliged?) to use their personal Google account for work. You remember completely incorrectly.

ggambetta 7y ago

> There is no indication that this information was a target of the fired employees. This bit? "The individual set up notifications so that they received emails detailing the work and whereabouts of those employees, including personal matters such as 1:1s, medical appointments and family activities"

H8crilA 7y ago
It's a little stalky, but yeah your work calendar is public on purpose - it's incredibly useful. People look it up before walking to your desk to chat and especially before setting up meetings. Just put a block of "busy", serves the same purpose. Nobody really cares if you're in a hospital or just running.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  Does that give them the right to take a screenshot of it and send it out of the company?
  - H8crilA 7y ago
    You cannot take any screenshot or any document or any piece of code from any company. This is common sense, in addition to probably being a copyright issue. I'm not sure why would anyone expect to be respected by their employer without following this rule. I meant public as in "internally public".
leereeves 7y ago
> "The individual set up notifications so that they received emails detailing the work and whereabouts of those employees, including personal matters such as 1:1s, medical appointments and family activities" Which could mean simply: 1) individual subscribed to other employee's work calendars, which are visible to everyone within Google, 2) individual had calendar notifications turned on, and 3) other employees posted personal matters on their work calendars.
Fiadliel 7y ago
They obviously subscribed to work calendars in order to follow the work activities of those people. There is no other technical way to do that. There isn’t a way to separate out personal events — which shouldn’t be there, or at least should be marked private. That this information was included, does not indicate that it was a target; it does indicate that it was a useful way for Google to attack their actions.
- eloisant 7y ago
  There is a way - use different calendars for work and home. Preferably with different accounts (work account vs personal account). You can then blend the 2 calendars either in the mobile app, or by importing one to the other account. I'm a bit surprised to hear some people would use their work calendar for personal activities, I don't see why you would do that.
  - praxulus 7y ago
    Right, but there's no way to separate out personal events when you subscribe to someone else's work calendar if they put personal events on their work calendar.
    - johnchristopher 7y ago
      But if you subcribe to such (edit: you colleague's) calendars for work purposes then why set up notifications for family activities ?
  - Fiadliel 7y ago
    I meant, there is no way for subscribers to a calendar to do that automatically. There are possible heuristics that could filter out clearly personal entries (keywords, etc.), but that feature would need to be implemented by (cough) Google. There are obvious ways for calendar owners to separate the information (which was not done in the instances that Google refer to).
  - jmkd 7y ago
    Because you have one life and busy days and personal and professional merge with a lunchtime meeting then an afternoon doctor's appointment etc. When you are back to back most days (common at Google) you can't be juggling multiple calendar accounts all the time, not least because a personal event doesn't show on your professional cal meaning someone can try to double book that slot.
barrkel 7y ago
This appears to be the default for G Suite settings, though. I can set up notifications to receive emails about work calendar entries for anyone in my company. Details around medical, family etc. are only visible if the employee adds that information to their work calendar.

scarejunba 7y ago

Irrespective of Google's statement, it appears that the people they were following felt unsafe. There's a little bit of "why didn't you tell me" to this. If someone were cataloging my every movement because I left my phone broadcasting to a bunch of Bluetooth beacons then sure it's my fault for doing that but if you're my coworker surely you'd tell me! If you instead were all like "Yup, it's bad practice to be doing that so of course I could tell where you were at all times. All I did was set up the beacons, man. You broadcast to them." I'd think they were pretty fucking weird. I'd seriously think they're a kook of some sort. Likewise, if you saw me put "Get kidney transplant" on my calendar and decided to subscribe to my calendar, then that's pretty fucking weird. I wouldn't buy "that's bad practice so I was allowed to stalk you". I'd be like "this dude is a fucking weirdo, can I go work elsewhere?". My calendar at every place I've worked has been public with private events for sensitive stuff but any time I put some private stuff public I'd expect someone to ask me if I meant to do that if they noticed.

Fiadliel 7y ago
I do appreciate that some people felt unsafe, but I wonder how exactly the messaging was made. Nobody ever came to me and asked how I felt about my work calendar being shared. You can't even get that information from Google. So this information on sharing was provided to particular people, and they were asked, "do you feel scared?". Presentation is everything, and if presented in terms of how their personal information was included, it can feel different compared to when shown in neutral terms. In addition, if these people were told that the four employees were dangerous or a threat, this will also colour their viewpoints. Bluetooth and kidney transplant arguments are about two hypothetical stories, and pointing out that if these had happened, it would be weird (well, yes it would, but that's not this story, they are very different).
- pas 7y ago
  Why in the first place someone was screencapping someone's calendar? Were they trying to organize some impromptu meeting with a hihger-up? Who was scared exactly? How did this came to light? I mean if the recently fired folks tried to pressure some other group, that's bad, and it seems it has nothing to do with unionizing. But if they were trying to catch some elusive exec to have a statement from, that could be different. But there are no specifics anywhere, just "Google bad, union good" or "stalkers bad"

userbinator 7y ago

Including personal information on your work calendar without using privacy controls is pretty bad practice, though obviously some people occasionally did it. Given the attitude Google itself has towards privacy in general, I'm not at all surprised by this... if I remember correctly, employees are even expected (obliged?) to use their personal Google account for work. I'd never work for Google, one of the reasons being this "work-life mixing". I personally maintain a very strict "firewall" between personal and employee matters.

darren_ 7y ago
> if I remember correctly, employees are even expected (obliged?) to use their personal Google account for work. You remember completely incorrectly.