6 ms·

I'm not from US and I've never been there, but I think the problem is not only about police abuse. When you're in a country where almost anyone can have a weapo

by kuu 7y ago

I'm not from US and I've never been there, but I think the problem is not only about police abuse. When you're in a country where almost anyone can have a weapon (and kind of the military range), the police also is having more risk than in any other country...

pluma 7y ago
I used to think that too, but the problem with gun ownership in the US tends to be more about gun culture than ownership. Other countries with high gun ownership rates don't have nearly the same problems, especially when it comes to accidental shootings. The problem of law enforcement killing people also has little to do with gun ownership. The frequent (or at least frequent enough to be concerning) shootings of unarmed black men for example are generally excused with police officers saying they were "afraid for their lives". This can only either be explained with terrible training or plain old racism (i.e. black men seem more threatening by default to the extent that an unarmed black man is considered more threatening than an armed white man), or most likely a mixture of both. There's a lot wrong with how police in the US is trained and held accountable. Gun ownership is the smallest contributor to that problem.
- krapp 7y ago
  >The frequent (or at least frequent enough to be concerning) shootings of unarmed black men for example are generally excused with police officers saying they were "afraid for their lives." Police officers only ever say that to lay the groundwork for a legal self-defense argument. >Gun ownership is the smallest contributor to that problem On the one hand, maybe, but on the other hand, it's difficult to stab someone from a distance, so the effect of guns as a force multiplier is relevant.
  - CompanionCuuube 7y ago
    > Police officers only ever say that to lay the groundwork for a legal self-defense argument. Or on the other hand, being afraid for your life is one of the motivators for resorting to deadly force. > On the one hand, maybe, but on the other hand, it's difficult to stab someone from a distance, so the effect of guns as a force multiplier is relevant. It's a good thing that human beings are not equipped with appendages on their lower body that enable locomotion.
maxerickson 7y ago
Most working police officers in the US probably haven't fired their weapon in the line of duty: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-look-at-police-officers-who-have-fired-their-weapon-on-duty/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-lo... The idea that they are at particular risk from random people with weapons is not supported by statistics. The current level of violence pretty clearly (to me) justifies police having access to weapons. It doesn't justify using them quickly.
- nyolfen 7y ago
  we are at something like a forty year low in violent crime
- kuu 7y ago
  > The idea that they are at particular risk from random people with weapons is not supported by statistics. This may be true (I don't know), however one thing is the risk and the perceived risk, and as humans, they're different.

by kuu 7y ago

pluma 7y ago

I used to think that too, but the problem with gun ownership in the US tends to be more about gun culture than ownership. Other countries with high gun ownership rates don't have nearly the same problems, especially when it comes to accidental shootings. The problem of law enforcement killing people also has little to do with gun ownership. The frequent (or at least frequent enough to be concerning) shootings of unarmed black men for example are generally excused with police officers saying they were "afraid for their lives". This can only either be explained with terrible training or plain old racism (i.e. black men seem more threatening by default to the extent that an unarmed black man is considered more threatening than an armed white man), or most likely a mixture of both. There's a lot wrong with how police in the US is trained and held accountable. Gun ownership is the smallest contributor to that problem.

krapp 7y ago
>The frequent (or at least frequent enough to be concerning) shootings of unarmed black men for example are generally excused with police officers saying they were "afraid for their lives." Police officers only ever say that to lay the groundwork for a legal self-defense argument. >Gun ownership is the smallest contributor to that problem On the one hand, maybe, but on the other hand, it's difficult to stab someone from a distance, so the effect of guns as a force multiplier is relevant.
- CompanionCuuube 7y ago
  > Police officers only ever say that to lay the groundwork for a legal self-defense argument. Or on the other hand, being afraid for your life is one of the motivators for resorting to deadly force. > On the one hand, maybe, but on the other hand, it's difficult to stab someone from a distance, so the effect of guns as a force multiplier is relevant. It's a good thing that human beings are not equipped with appendages on their lower body that enable locomotion.

maxerickson 7y ago

Most working police officers in the US probably haven't fired their weapon in the line of duty: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-look-at-police-officers-who-have-fired-their-weapon-on-duty/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-lo... The idea that they are at particular risk from random people with weapons is not supported by statistics. The current level of violence pretty clearly (to me) justifies police having access to weapons. It doesn't justify using them quickly.

nyolfen 7y ago
we are at something like a forty year low in violent crime
kuu 7y ago
> The idea that they are at particular risk from random people with weapons is not supported by statistics. This may be true (I don't know), however one thing is the risk and the perceived risk, and as humans, they're different.