11 ms·

Salary shortage is real. I can't find any startups worth interviewing right now, as a senior SWE. The offers tend to be 50% of what I currently have (despite th

Salary shortage is real. I can't find any startups worth interviewing right now, as a senior SWE. The offers tend to be 50% of what I currently have (despite the "shortage"). Sorry for the snarky tone, but it should be evident by now that the real shortage is for "highly talented souls willing to work for peanuts"--which is kind of oxymoronic. People want to hire "highly talented" and smart individuals, but expect them to be dumb enough to sell themselves short?

mattmar96 7y ago
I never said we were offering peanuts. Competitive salary for the area.
- dominotw 7y ago
  > Competitive salary for the area. > We can't find anyone worth interviewing right now How can both statements be simultaneously true.
  - mattmar96 7y ago
    Perhaps a large majority of SWE's in our area have a job right now.
    - monoideism 7y ago
      You're right now more or less "featured" in front of one of the largest software communities in the US. Why not post a link to your job?
  - iudqnolq 7y ago
    A phenomenon known as "sticky wages" which means (in part[1]) that people are reluctant to quit and get a new job even if an "economically rational actor" would. 1: The definition also includes the fact that employers are more reluctant to lower wages than they are to increase them, all else equal.
    - dominotw 7y ago
      wouldn't that keep wages stagnant though. I see wages rising in SV.
      - iudqnolq 7y ago
        That is a piece of evidence against that. It's not conclusive, because wages can both be rising and be rising less than they would be absent the practice. However, I definitely haven't made a strong case for what I said, just wanted to throw out the name of a theory in case people wanted to Google it an learn more. I'm not equipped to definitely answer a question well-regarded economists debate about, of course.
- DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
  If you want to post the job description, location, and salary range, we could make the discussion more concrete.
fossuser 7y ago
What salary do you expect? The startup offers I've seen in the bay area for SWE a couple years out of school are pretty high, $150k - $185k which is pretty good cash comp from a startup. Higher than that is probably not a realistic expectation for most startups that are not flush with cash. They'd probably be happy to pay it or more for John Carmack, but you're probably not John Carmack.
- freehunter 7y ago
  If you’re a cash strapped startup that can’t afford to pay competitive SV wages, maybe you shouldn’t be in SV. There are plenty of cheaper places around the country with world class engineering schools to hire from and far lower cost of living. Madison WI and Pittsburgh PA come to mind.
  - rak00n 7y ago
    It doesn't work that way. Silicon Valley is flooded with wanna-bes. So even if you're cash strapped you can still hire. Madison WI isn't. For the same reason it's easier to hire an actor in LA.
- twblalock 7y ago
  > The startup offers I've seen in the bay area for SWE a couple years out of school are pretty high, $150k - $185k which is pretty good cash comp from a startup. I agree that is pretty good for a Bay Area startup, but it is far below the total compensation a FAANG company offers today. After several years, the RSUs at a FAANG could pay out more every year than the salary, and they are immediately sellable on the open market. Startup options are likely to be worthless. This is why startups have a hard time hiring. A lot of engineers would rather work for FAANG or similar large companies, where they will make a lot more money with much less risk.
  - fossuser 7y ago
    Yeah, but I think startups are a different bet - either on comp (betting on equity) or on learning (more access to building a company). OP seemed to suggest that startups have trouble hiring because they don't pay enough and I think that's not entirely true from what I've seen. They don't pay more than FAANG which is expected, but they're not underpaying for that trade-off. I do agree though that FAANG salaries have gotten extreme so it's a harder opportunity cost than it used to be. If you can swing $350k at Netflix or $200-400k+ total comp at the others and you work there for 5-10 years that's basically a small startup exit. I think it used to be less dramatic. I think the misery of the technical interview process is actually the thing that limits mobility most. Some of my extremely capable friends (that do work at FAANGs) don't optimize on moving around or income as much as they could because the process is so painful and anxiety inducing.

mattmar96 7y ago

I never said we were offering peanuts. Competitive salary for the area.

dominotw 7y ago
> Competitive salary for the area. > We can't find anyone worth interviewing right now How can both statements be simultaneously true.
- mattmar96 7y ago
  Perhaps a large majority of SWE's in our area have a job right now.
  - monoideism 7y ago
    You're right now more or less "featured" in front of one of the largest software communities in the US. Why not post a link to your job?
- iudqnolq 7y ago
  A phenomenon known as "sticky wages" which means (in part[1]) that people are reluctant to quit and get a new job even if an "economically rational actor" would. 1: The definition also includes the fact that employers are more reluctant to lower wages than they are to increase them, all else equal.
  - dominotw 7y ago
    wouldn't that keep wages stagnant though. I see wages rising in SV.
    - iudqnolq 7y ago
      That is a piece of evidence against that. It's not conclusive, because wages can both be rising and be rising less than they would be absent the practice. However, I definitely haven't made a strong case for what I said, just wanted to throw out the name of a theory in case people wanted to Google it an learn more. I'm not equipped to definitely answer a question well-regarded economists debate about, of course.
DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
If you want to post the job description, location, and salary range, we could make the discussion more concrete.

fossuser 7y ago

What salary do you expect? The startup offers I've seen in the bay area for SWE a couple years out of school are pretty high, $150k - $185k which is pretty good cash comp from a startup. Higher than that is probably not a realistic expectation for most startups that are not flush with cash. They'd probably be happy to pay it or more for John Carmack, but you're probably not John Carmack.

freehunter 7y ago
If you’re a cash strapped startup that can’t afford to pay competitive SV wages, maybe you shouldn’t be in SV. There are plenty of cheaper places around the country with world class engineering schools to hire from and far lower cost of living. Madison WI and Pittsburgh PA come to mind.
- rak00n 7y ago
  It doesn't work that way. Silicon Valley is flooded with wanna-bes. So even if you're cash strapped you can still hire. Madison WI isn't. For the same reason it's easier to hire an actor in LA.
twblalock 7y ago
> The startup offers I've seen in the bay area for SWE a couple years out of school are pretty high, $150k - $185k which is pretty good cash comp from a startup. I agree that is pretty good for a Bay Area startup, but it is far below the total compensation a FAANG company offers today. After several years, the RSUs at a FAANG could pay out more every year than the salary, and they are immediately sellable on the open market. Startup options are likely to be worthless. This is why startups have a hard time hiring. A lot of engineers would rather work for FAANG or similar large companies, where they will make a lot more money with much less risk.
- fossuser 7y ago
  Yeah, but I think startups are a different bet - either on comp (betting on equity) or on learning (more access to building a company). OP seemed to suggest that startups have trouble hiring because they don't pay enough and I think that's not entirely true from what I've seen. They don't pay more than FAANG which is expected, but they're not underpaying for that trade-off. I do agree though that FAANG salaries have gotten extreme so it's a harder opportunity cost than it used to be. If you can swing $350k at Netflix or $200-400k+ total comp at the others and you work there for 5-10 years that's basically a small startup exit. I think it used to be less dramatic. I think the misery of the technical interview process is actually the thing that limits mobility most. Some of my extremely capable friends (that do work at FAANGs) don't optimize on moving around or income as much as they could because the process is so painful and anxiety inducing.