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> I wish there was some way to opt out of this. In California, there sort of is. First: you can register _two_ addresses with the DMV. One is your "mailing

> I wish there was some way to opt out of this. In California, there sort of is. First: you can register _two_ addresses with the DMV. One is your "mailing address" and is what is shown on your ID and gets sold with dumps like this, the other is your "residence address" and is a little bit more protected. If someone tries to run your plate number through any civilian system, they're only going to get your "mailing address" and NEVER your "residence address." Second: you can get a "Private Mailbox" service. PMBs are really useful in their own right, but with USPS rules you CANNOT send unsolicited or bulk mail to these addresses. The USPS keeps a database and is very good about filtering these off. So: Get a PMB and use it as your "mailing address." This will keep the marketers one step away from your real information and will prevent large amounts of spam from reaching you. Most PMBs have a "forward when full" or "forward on schedule" service, where they'll empty your box for you and then forward all of that to whatever address you provide them. I've been doing this for 10 years now and it's been fantastic.

dredmorbius 7y ago
Is PMB a USPS or private enterprise service?
- Keverw 7y ago
  Private companies offer PMBs. You have to fill out a form to allow them to handle the mail and get it notarized which is part of the USPS regulations. Some states even allow a PMB to be used for both mailing and residence address for driver licenses and registration, such as South Dakota. You need proof you spent a night at a campground or hotel, along with a receipt for your PMB. So if you sell your house to hit the road full time, your former state might be picky about address so people use a relative address or just change their domicile to a friendly state who recognizes full time RVing. Also kinda interesting South Dakota made it illegal for red light cameras to access the DMV database, and they even revoked access to a city in Iowa on the border. So police officers must phone in all driver license and registration checks instead of being able to use the computer. So no longer automated, but cops will still manually review the footage and write a ticket as a work around. So basically no difference they witnessed it in person or sitting at a computer watching remotely. Just no longer automated process, wouldn't surprise me if for all other states still automatic but it has like a inbox for SD plates to manually review. I guess cities all away across the country are in violation of South Dakota law possibly, but I guess at most they can do is just deny you access to their computers. and if you ended up getting a ticket it's probably still valid no matter what SD law says. I know in Ohio there's been a battle between the state and cities. Dayton for example has illegally kept the cameras on, now the state says they can but all money collected will be subtracted from any money the city gets from the state. Be interesting if Dayton ever captured any South Dakota plates, but not sure if it'd be going too far if a sheriff in a small county decided to expedite the mayor of Dayton, Ohio to stand trial for violating South Dakota data access laws.
  - robocat 7y ago
    > just change their domicile to a friendly state who recognizes full time RVing That's like a ship's flag of convenience... Do any states actively encourage RVers to change domicile? Presumably they could get tax returns from it? I'm guessing RVers are a mixture of high and low income earners.
    - dbcurtis 7y ago
      SoDak has no state income tax, so perhaps there is some other benefit to the state.
      - selimthegrim 7y ago
        Perpetual trusts
    - Keverw 7y ago
      Not too sure, people say FL, TX, and SD are the popular ones. FL seems to be by county though, as each county tax office handles this stuff, instead of a statewide DMV. Oregon has a "continuous traveler" status, but apparently, you must already be an Oregon resident. SD I guess is making millions from people who barely use the roads. Some say it's to inflate population for census numbers, so more seats in congress, electoral college votes and federal funding... But not sure how RVers are counted... Not sure if they send census forms to PMBs. Also was reading census workers will go to hotels and campgrounds, but that sounded odd to me since aren't a lot of those people are on vacation? Some say it's supposed to be a snapshot of April first. So I guess if a New York resident is spending the winter in FL, then FL would get credit for them? It seems like some different interpretations. Then your former state might be strict about addresses, unless you use a relative or homeless shelter address... but if you are RVing by choice, don't really think a homeless shelter would be appropriate and if you are across the country I feel like they'd expect you to come to pick up your mail instead of forwarding it or scanning it. I know I heard a story someone in Michigan rented a mailbox because they didn't want to go worried about another domicile yet, changed it online and they accepted it. Then later got a letter with a short amount of time to get a residential address or be suspended. So they had to either use a family or friend's address or rush to another state. So a lifelong resident was kicked out of their home state because they wanted to live an alternative lifestyle. So if your state doesn't recognize full time RVing, you are stuck getting established in a new state. Full time RVers with money sometimes struggle with this, getting all the documents together. One couple went to SD but his wife had to get a new copy of her marriage license. Also, some states won't accept some birth certificates anymore due to Real ID, meaning you need to get a new one. I guess the rules changed about 20 years ago. I feel sorry for people who are truly homeless, and then you need one document to get another document, proofs of address, affidavits, and everything. It feels like a real way to suppress people sadly. At least with SD and FL, you don't have to physically bring your car though... So you could fly if forced to change on short notice, get a new license and register your cars. FL will let you register without bringing it too, however, you need a VIN inspection affidavit but even out of state police officers are allowed to sign it. Some RV blogs talk about that. SD has no vin inspections, and there was a group of fraudsters changing vin numbers slightly to register stolen cars in SD because of how lax they are. November 2018 it looks is when the theft ring got caught. Also, SD doesn't require an in state address for registrations, only licenses. There was a report that Nebraska residents registered in South Dakota because it's cheaper, however, if you live in Nebraska with a Nebraska driver license, you are breaking the law in Nebraska. Maine is supposed to be lax too with trailers and motorcycles if I recall. Some trucking companies also pick lax states. Some estimate there are a million RVers, I kinda wish the feds would step in and offer a program maybe. If you worked remotely traveling full time or retired in an RV, I think it's stupid you have to still be tied to a state somehow. Right now only US government owned vehicles have federal license plates. But I guess no one really considered this was a possibility maybe? One county in SD has more RVers than people with actual houses and apartments. Apparently, you can vote for state and fed elections with your PMB, but local issues they won't let you anymore I've heard from someone in a FB group... Not sure how true that is or even if that's legal since that's the address on your license and even a homeless person using a park bench could vote. Clay County in FL has also been challenging voting rights for RVers. There was a lawsuit in Texas over RVers using an address in Livingston, TX but Texas recognized their voting rights in the end. Some people RV by choice traveling the country, while out in cities where housing is so high people buy a RV that barely runs to live in them on the side of the street, some even dumping sewage since can't afford a dump station. So I think some RV people are homeless, but the ones doing it by choice I wouldn't consider them homeless even though some might view them as homeless. Some RVs can get expensive, there are million dollar ones with granite countertops, but then they probably weight more so more fuel. I think personally I'd aim around 35 feet, as probably could fit more places compared to a 40 footer. I follow some vloggers, but I think it's a neat lifestyle to dream of, plus tech keeps getting better and better. Some day might even have decent satellite internet. Some people even have full time RV families too, doing homeschooling aka roadschooling. One guy owns a marketing company, so he can pretty much manage things from an RV or on a cruise ship. So be nice to follow the weather, sightsee and explore. But it's not an all vacation, got to balance work and play, still got to clean, go grocery shopping, etc. Similar to living in a house but it has wheels. But the whole country can be your backyard.
driverdan 7y ago
> Second: you can get a "Private Mailbox" service. PMBs are really useful in their own right, but with USPS rules you CANNOT send unsolicited or bulk mail to these addresses. The USPS keeps a database and is very good about filtering these off. I've been using PMBs for 15+ years. I still get bulk junk mail.
- akira2501 7y ago
  > I still get bulk junk mail. I could have been more clear.. you can still get "junk mail" but you shouldn't be getting "pre-sorted bulk mail." The latter typically comes addressed to "RESIDENT or CURRENT OWNER" or something similar, which is a fair amount of standard junk, but also catalogs, coupon books, weekly shopping flyers and phone books. Those items are typically mailed using the pre-sorted bulk rate, which is not available for PMBs and a few other types of addresses. Anyone can just send regular rate mail to a PMB and that can obviously be "junk" or "unsolicited commercial" mail, so there are no special restrictions in that sense, but compared to my prior residential mail volume my PMB only receives about 10% the amount of "junk" that I used to endure.

dredmorbius 7y ago

Is PMB a USPS or private enterprise service?

Keverw 7y ago
Private companies offer PMBs. You have to fill out a form to allow them to handle the mail and get it notarized which is part of the USPS regulations. Some states even allow a PMB to be used for both mailing and residence address for driver licenses and registration, such as South Dakota. You need proof you spent a night at a campground or hotel, along with a receipt for your PMB. So if you sell your house to hit the road full time, your former state might be picky about address so people use a relative address or just change their domicile to a friendly state who recognizes full time RVing. Also kinda interesting South Dakota made it illegal for red light cameras to access the DMV database, and they even revoked access to a city in Iowa on the border. So police officers must phone in all driver license and registration checks instead of being able to use the computer. So no longer automated, but cops will still manually review the footage and write a ticket as a work around. So basically no difference they witnessed it in person or sitting at a computer watching remotely. Just no longer automated process, wouldn't surprise me if for all other states still automatic but it has like a inbox for SD plates to manually review. I guess cities all away across the country are in violation of South Dakota law possibly, but I guess at most they can do is just deny you access to their computers. and if you ended up getting a ticket it's probably still valid no matter what SD law says. I know in Ohio there's been a battle between the state and cities. Dayton for example has illegally kept the cameras on, now the state says they can but all money collected will be subtracted from any money the city gets from the state. Be interesting if Dayton ever captured any South Dakota plates, but not sure if it'd be going too far if a sheriff in a small county decided to expedite the mayor of Dayton, Ohio to stand trial for violating South Dakota data access laws.
- robocat 7y ago
  > just change their domicile to a friendly state who recognizes full time RVing That's like a ship's flag of convenience... Do any states actively encourage RVers to change domicile? Presumably they could get tax returns from it? I'm guessing RVers are a mixture of high and low income earners.
  - dbcurtis 7y ago
    SoDak has no state income tax, so perhaps there is some other benefit to the state.
    - selimthegrim 7y ago
      Perpetual trusts
  - Keverw 7y ago
    Not too sure, people say FL, TX, and SD are the popular ones. FL seems to be by county though, as each county tax office handles this stuff, instead of a statewide DMV. Oregon has a "continuous traveler" status, but apparently, you must already be an Oregon resident. SD I guess is making millions from people who barely use the roads. Some say it's to inflate population for census numbers, so more seats in congress, electoral college votes and federal funding... But not sure how RVers are counted... Not sure if they send census forms to PMBs. Also was reading census workers will go to hotels and campgrounds, but that sounded odd to me since aren't a lot of those people are on vacation? Some say it's supposed to be a snapshot of April first. So I guess if a New York resident is spending the winter in FL, then FL would get credit for them? It seems like some different interpretations. Then your former state might be strict about addresses, unless you use a relative or homeless shelter address... but if you are RVing by choice, don't really think a homeless shelter would be appropriate and if you are across the country I feel like they'd expect you to come to pick up your mail instead of forwarding it or scanning it. I know I heard a story someone in Michigan rented a mailbox because they didn't want to go worried about another domicile yet, changed it online and they accepted it. Then later got a letter with a short amount of time to get a residential address or be suspended. So they had to either use a family or friend's address or rush to another state. So a lifelong resident was kicked out of their home state because they wanted to live an alternative lifestyle. So if your state doesn't recognize full time RVing, you are stuck getting established in a new state. Full time RVers with money sometimes struggle with this, getting all the documents together. One couple went to SD but his wife had to get a new copy of her marriage license. Also, some states won't accept some birth certificates anymore due to Real ID, meaning you need to get a new one. I guess the rules changed about 20 years ago. I feel sorry for people who are truly homeless, and then you need one document to get another document, proofs of address, affidavits, and everything. It feels like a real way to suppress people sadly. At least with SD and FL, you don't have to physically bring your car though... So you could fly if forced to change on short notice, get a new license and register your cars. FL will let you register without bringing it too, however, you need a VIN inspection affidavit but even out of state police officers are allowed to sign it. Some RV blogs talk about that. SD has no vin inspections, and there was a group of fraudsters changing vin numbers slightly to register stolen cars in SD because of how lax they are. November 2018 it looks is when the theft ring got caught. Also, SD doesn't require an in state address for registrations, only licenses. There was a report that Nebraska residents registered in South Dakota because it's cheaper, however, if you live in Nebraska with a Nebraska driver license, you are breaking the law in Nebraska. Maine is supposed to be lax too with trailers and motorcycles if I recall. Some trucking companies also pick lax states. Some estimate there are a million RVers, I kinda wish the feds would step in and offer a program maybe. If you worked remotely traveling full time or retired in an RV, I think it's stupid you have to still be tied to a state somehow. Right now only US government owned vehicles have federal license plates. But I guess no one really considered this was a possibility maybe? One county in SD has more RVers than people with actual houses and apartments. Apparently, you can vote for state and fed elections with your PMB, but local issues they won't let you anymore I've heard from someone in a FB group... Not sure how true that is or even if that's legal since that's the address on your license and even a homeless person using a park bench could vote. Clay County in FL has also been challenging voting rights for RVers. There was a lawsuit in Texas over RVers using an address in Livingston, TX but Texas recognized their voting rights in the end. Some people RV by choice traveling the country, while out in cities where housing is so high people buy a RV that barely runs to live in them on the side of the street, some even dumping sewage since can't afford a dump station. So I think some RV people are homeless, but the ones doing it by choice I wouldn't consider them homeless even though some might view them as homeless. Some RVs can get expensive, there are million dollar ones with granite countertops, but then they probably weight more so more fuel. I think personally I'd aim around 35 feet, as probably could fit more places compared to a 40 footer. I follow some vloggers, but I think it's a neat lifestyle to dream of, plus tech keeps getting better and better. Some day might even have decent satellite internet. Some people even have full time RV families too, doing homeschooling aka roadschooling. One guy owns a marketing company, so he can pretty much manage things from an RV or on a cruise ship. So be nice to follow the weather, sightsee and explore. But it's not an all vacation, got to balance work and play, still got to clean, go grocery shopping, etc. Similar to living in a house but it has wheels. But the whole country can be your backyard.

driverdan 7y ago

> Second: you can get a "Private Mailbox" service. PMBs are really useful in their own right, but with USPS rules you CANNOT send unsolicited or bulk mail to these addresses. The USPS keeps a database and is very good about filtering these off. I've been using PMBs for 15+ years. I still get bulk junk mail.

akira2501 7y ago
> I still get bulk junk mail. I could have been more clear.. you can still get "junk mail" but you shouldn't be getting "pre-sorted bulk mail." The latter typically comes addressed to "RESIDENT or CURRENT OWNER" or something similar, which is a fair amount of standard junk, but also catalogs, coupon books, weekly shopping flyers and phone books. Those items are typically mailed using the pre-sorted bulk rate, which is not available for PMBs and a few other types of addresses. Anyone can just send regular rate mail to a PMB and that can obviously be "junk" or "unsolicited commercial" mail, so there are no special restrictions in that sense, but compared to my prior residential mail volume my PMB only receives about 10% the amount of "junk" that I used to endure.