5 ms·

I think you are conflating two distinct things, one of which is an incontrovertible reality and the other not. Its certainly the case that in a sense we are alw

I think you are conflating two distinct things, one of which is an incontrovertible reality and the other not. Its certainly the case that in a sense we are always making choices which you could apply a cost benefit analysis to (although and as an aside, there is no universally agreed upon system for making such analyses, so what this means is unclear). What isn't necessarily true is that any particular person at any particular time is performing, even subconsciously, a cost benefit analysis. What I'm trying to get across is that it is the preference of the vast majority of human beings to not be so performing all the time. If you really must think of the spreadsheet, think of it this way: most people prefer for most of their decisions to be made ahead of time and for the circumstances of life, if at all possible, the change infrequently enough that they don't need to go back to the spreadsheet every single minute of their lives. If you find that people react negatively to modernity, it might be because the liberal fantasy is that we're all just fucking going crazy on our spreadsheets all of the time (unless we're rich, then we pay someone else to think about our spreadsheets all the time and we live on the margins, as irrational and happy as pigs in the mud).

WalterBright 7y ago
> What isn't necessarily true is that any particular person at any particular time is performing, even subconsciously, a cost benefit analysis. Every time a person makes a decision, they are doing a cost benefit analysis, regardless of whether they are aware of it or not. > What I'm trying to get across is that it is the preference of the vast majority of human beings to not be so performing all the time. It is true that many people (including me) prefer to "wing" decisions because they don't want to expend effort on it. But that itself is yet another cost-benefit decision.
carapace 7y ago
I'll jump in here: we are the process and product of evolution so we must be doing cost benefit analysis all the time. It's almost entirely unconscious (or automatic if you prefer) but it's got to be happening (or we would have been out-adapted and failed to exist in the first place.)
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  I think you, GP and WalterBright are talking past each other. Sure, cost-benefit seems to be ingrained deeply into the structure of our minds; I'd go as far as to say it's also an important part of rational thinking in the abstract. But GP isn't talking about that. GP is talking about being forced to do cost-benefit analyses on a conscious and even instinctive levels all the time, by our economy and our society. GP is talking about the desire to not have to do that, and to instead be able to enjoy life without constantly worrying that anything but close-to-optimal decision will be disastrous in short or long-term. The dream of being able to relax, to be able to dive deep into something that interests you for couple of weeks, without risking sacrificing your kid's whole future in the process. Upthread, I believe GP was also talking about what I call the competitive vs. cooperative nature of society. Our society is way too competitive for my taste, and it's what I believe is driving this cost/benefit craze.
  - tartoran 7y ago
    My take is the same. And to add to it, being constantly analyzing every aspect of one's life leads to loss of creativity, spontaneity and joy. I understand we do cost benefit analysis when we make serious choices or even for all choices but as nathan_compton points out, we don't need to do that every single time. And to further add to it, being an artist in this day and age is a f-ing privilege because only rich people can afford it. There are lots of artists who are not rich but they are stressed out and find various jobs to make ends meet, specifically very modest ends, food and shelter.
    - WalterBright 7y ago
      > we don't need to do that every single time. You cannot help but do it every single time. Even when you choose what TV channel to watch. If you conscious mind doesn't do it, your subconscious will. Making good cost/benefit decisions is how poor people move up financially, and making bad ones is how the rich become not-so-rich. (Like David Cassidy, who spent his wealth on drugs and parties and one day woke up jobless, friendless, and money-less. A similar story happened to Will Smith, though he managed to turn his life around, make better decisions, and regained his wealth.)

WalterBright 7y ago

> What isn't necessarily true is that any particular person at any particular time is performing, even subconsciously, a cost benefit analysis. Every time a person makes a decision, they are doing a cost benefit analysis, regardless of whether they are aware of it or not. > What I'm trying to get across is that it is the preference of the vast majority of human beings to not be so performing all the time. It is true that many people (including me) prefer to "wing" decisions because they don't want to expend effort on it. But that itself is yet another cost-benefit decision.

carapace 7y ago

I'll jump in here: we are the process and product of evolution so we must be doing cost benefit analysis all the time. It's almost entirely unconscious (or automatic if you prefer) but it's got to be happening (or we would have been out-adapted and failed to exist in the first place.)

TeMPOraL 7y ago
I think you, GP and WalterBright are talking past each other. Sure, cost-benefit seems to be ingrained deeply into the structure of our minds; I'd go as far as to say it's also an important part of rational thinking in the abstract. But GP isn't talking about that. GP is talking about being forced to do cost-benefit analyses on a conscious and even instinctive levels all the time, by our economy and our society. GP is talking about the desire to not have to do that, and to instead be able to enjoy life without constantly worrying that anything but close-to-optimal decision will be disastrous in short or long-term. The dream of being able to relax, to be able to dive deep into something that interests you for couple of weeks, without risking sacrificing your kid's whole future in the process. Upthread, I believe GP was also talking about what I call the competitive vs. cooperative nature of society. Our society is way too competitive for my taste, and it's what I believe is driving this cost/benefit craze.
- tartoran 7y ago
  My take is the same. And to add to it, being constantly analyzing every aspect of one's life leads to loss of creativity, spontaneity and joy. I understand we do cost benefit analysis when we make serious choices or even for all choices but as nathan_compton points out, we don't need to do that every single time. And to further add to it, being an artist in this day and age is a f-ing privilege because only rich people can afford it. There are lots of artists who are not rich but they are stressed out and find various jobs to make ends meet, specifically very modest ends, food and shelter.
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    > we don't need to do that every single time. You cannot help but do it every single time. Even when you choose what TV channel to watch. If you conscious mind doesn't do it, your subconscious will. Making good cost/benefit decisions is how poor people move up financially, and making bad ones is how the rich become not-so-rich. (Like David Cassidy, who spent his wealth on drugs and parties and one day woke up jobless, friendless, and money-less. A similar story happened to Will Smith, though he managed to turn his life around, make better decisions, and regained his wealth.)