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If your narrative was true, why wouldn’t drivers quit in droves? My retired dad drives an Uber. He built a spreadsheet and did the math on car deterioration an

by aey 7y ago

If your narrative was true, why wouldn’t drivers quit in droves? My retired dad drives an Uber. He built a spreadsheet and did the math on car deterioration and gas costs and is happy with the result. If Uber is exploiting anything, it’s idle labor. I don’t own any Uber or Lyft stock. I think worker owned apps could potentially hurt Ubers market share if the drivers collectively push them and prices are at least 20% cheaper or faster.

wffurr 7y ago
Retired. Did the math. Somehow doesn't strike me as the average Uber driver. It's trivial for Uber to "do the math" based on some simple factors drivers could plug into the app, and then they could show what the driver is actually earning after gas, maintenance, and depreciation. Writing a spreadsheet and figuring out all that yourself is difficult to get right and requires a fair amount of mathematical and technical knowledge. Mr. Money Mustache's argument is that it would be trivial for Uber and Lyft to "do the math" for them, but they won't because then drivers will realize just how little they're making.
- phkahler 7y ago
  My sister was teaching math. One student asked why they even needed to learn that stuff. She said "how will you ever know if you're getting ripped off?". The kid considered that for a moment and started paying attention.
- WalterBright 7y ago
  > Retired. Did the math. Somehow doesn't strike me as the average Uber driver. I often explain to people who duck learning math, who don't think it is relevant, etc., that being inept at math is a strong predictor of being poor. None want to hear that, but what can I do?
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    Are you sure that being poor isn't a strong predictor of being bad at math?
    - WalterBright 7y ago
      Perhaps, but rejecting math instruction as being "irrelevant", "boring", "not cool", is a choice.
pyrale 7y ago
I don't think anecdata is relevant for Uber, since their pricing/payment is not uniform.
- asdff 7y ago
  Especially considering gas prices vary by $2 a gallon sometimes within a mile where I live. Not to mention everything else that's absolutely different uber driver to uber driver.
lonelappde 7y ago
Did your dad buy a car for Uber? The question is whether that is economically rational. Once you are stuck paying for a car, Uber looks a lot better going forward.
mywittyname 7y ago
You can be cash-flow positive driving Uber, but still lose money overall. Depreciation can be sneaky because you don't pay it until you switch vehicles, and even when it comes time to pay it, the costs are bundled up into the next vehicle loan you get. Maintenance is the same way. Uber exploits the fact that people mistakenly believe cash flow is profit. I also wonder if your father purchased commercial insurance. That stuff is expensive, and not having it is like buying an exploding lottery ticket. If he's ever in an accident (regardless of whether he was getting paid or not) and his insurance discovers that he drove for Uber without the appropriate coverage, the claim could be denied. Uber also exploits the fact that their drivers can get away with not being adequately insured.
- aey 7y ago
  Uber covers insurance. https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/insurance/ https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/insurance/ It’s not all hard to extrapolate mileage depreciation based on car prices. I feel like these laws are coming from well meaning people who don’t actually represent anyone earning money driving for Uber. Why are we not seeing driver strikes driving these changes?
  - mywittyname 7y ago
    Uber covers you while your driving, that does not prevent insurance companies from denying claims or dropping coverage on former or current Uber drivers because they don't have commercial insurance on their now-commercial vehicle. If you're ever in an accident while not driving for Uber, the insurance company will ask you if you've ever used this car to drive for a ride-sharing service. This could be grounds to void your policy. And Uber will not cover you in this situation. https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/44vuoa/insurance_is_dropping_me_for_uber_driving/ https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/44vuoa/insuran...
    - aey 7y ago
      It’s largely a solved problem. My insurer USAA has a ride-share add-on that costs an additional $10 a month.

by aey 7y ago

wffurr 7y ago

Retired. Did the math. Somehow doesn't strike me as the average Uber driver. It's trivial for Uber to "do the math" based on some simple factors drivers could plug into the app, and then they could show what the driver is actually earning after gas, maintenance, and depreciation. Writing a spreadsheet and figuring out all that yourself is difficult to get right and requires a fair amount of mathematical and technical knowledge. Mr. Money Mustache's argument is that it would be trivial for Uber and Lyft to "do the math" for them, but they won't because then drivers will realize just how little they're making.

phkahler 7y ago
My sister was teaching math. One student asked why they even needed to learn that stuff. She said "how will you ever know if you're getting ripped off?". The kid considered that for a moment and started paying attention.
WalterBright 7y ago
> Retired. Did the math. Somehow doesn't strike me as the average Uber driver. I often explain to people who duck learning math, who don't think it is relevant, etc., that being inept at math is a strong predictor of being poor. None want to hear that, but what can I do?
- jjeaff 7y ago
  Are you sure that being poor isn't a strong predictor of being bad at math?
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    Perhaps, but rejecting math instruction as being "irrelevant", "boring", "not cool", is a choice.

pyrale 7y ago

I don't think anecdata is relevant for Uber, since their pricing/payment is not uniform.

asdff 7y ago
Especially considering gas prices vary by $2 a gallon sometimes within a mile where I live. Not to mention everything else that's absolutely different uber driver to uber driver.

lonelappde 7y ago

Did your dad buy a car for Uber? The question is whether that is economically rational. Once you are stuck paying for a car, Uber looks a lot better going forward.

mywittyname 7y ago

You can be cash-flow positive driving Uber, but still lose money overall. Depreciation can be sneaky because you don't pay it until you switch vehicles, and even when it comes time to pay it, the costs are bundled up into the next vehicle loan you get. Maintenance is the same way. Uber exploits the fact that people mistakenly believe cash flow is profit. I also wonder if your father purchased commercial insurance. That stuff is expensive, and not having it is like buying an exploding lottery ticket. If he's ever in an accident (regardless of whether he was getting paid or not) and his insurance discovers that he drove for Uber without the appropriate coverage, the claim could be denied. Uber also exploits the fact that their drivers can get away with not being adequately insured.

aey 7y ago
Uber covers insurance. https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/insurance/ https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/insurance/ It’s not all hard to extrapolate mileage depreciation based on car prices. I feel like these laws are coming from well meaning people who don’t actually represent anyone earning money driving for Uber. Why are we not seeing driver strikes driving these changes?
- mywittyname 7y ago
  Uber covers you while your driving, that does not prevent insurance companies from denying claims or dropping coverage on former or current Uber drivers because they don't have commercial insurance on their now-commercial vehicle. If you're ever in an accident while not driving for Uber, the insurance company will ask you if you've ever used this car to drive for a ride-sharing service. This could be grounds to void your policy. And Uber will not cover you in this situation. https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/44vuoa/insurance_is_dropping_me_for_uber_driving/ https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/44vuoa/insuran...
  - aey 7y ago
    It’s largely a solved problem. My insurer USAA has a ride-share add-on that costs an additional $10 a month.