5 ms·

They are alaready doing so. IPv6 test enviroments has been a disaster in the ISP I work for, too many devices don't support IPv6 in the domestic market and solu

They are alaready doing so. IPv6 test enviroments has been a disaster in the ISP I work for, too many devices don't support IPv6 in the domestic market and solution to router IPv4 over IPv6 are problematic.

freedomben 7y ago
Very interesting, thanks for sharing. What kind of devices are they? IoT type stuff, smart TVs, etc?
- ecksii 7y ago
  Right now IoT devices use a communications model that overcome's NAT by tying the device to a service endpoint in the cloud. The device registers itself as an IoT device in aws and then your local hosts hit the device by going to the device endpoint in the cloud. I don't know if this model will hold up when IPv6 more widely supported though.
jaywalk 7y ago
The largest ISP in the US, Comcast, has deployed IPv6 on 100% of their network. If they can do it, why can't you?
- notdonspaulding 7y ago
  To the best of my knowledge, Comcast is running dual-stack v4 and v6. The GP was talking about running a purely v6 network, and pointing out that it wasn't yet feasible. Your example of Comcast doesn't really fit the bill because Comcast already has a v4 network to all of their customers, and they are not migrating customers to a solely-v6 network. This is the chicken-and-egg problem that all new networks are facing with regard to IPv6 adoption. In order to have a usable network, you have to support IPv4 to all endpoints. But once you have v4 at all endpoints, the incentive to run v6 is greatly diminished. As always, v6 needs a "killer app" that Grandma wants to use that is unavailable over the v4 internet, and then network administrators could use the actual demand from their customers as a justification for moving to v6. Unfortunately, at the moment, the list of v4-only must-have apps is still greater than the list of v6-only must-have apps.
  - wmf 7y ago
    v6 with DS-Lite/464/MAP is going to be cheaper than v4-only because it allows the ISP to sell off (or not buy) most of their v4 addresses while also using less equipment. T-Mobile has already adopted this architecture.
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    > The GP was talking about running a purely v6 network, and pointing out that it wasn't yet feasible. Amusingly that's how mobile/smartphones are supposedly run: the devices get IPv6-only, and if they need to hit an IPv4-only address they are CGNATed. * https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/deploy360/2014/case-study-t-mobile-us-goes-ipv6-only-using-464xlat/ https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/deploy360/2014/cas... * https://blogs.akamai.com/2016/06/preparing-for-ipv6-only-mobile-networks-why-and-how.html https://blogs.akamai.com/2016/06/preparing-for-ipv6-only-mob...
    - exhilaration 7y ago
      Ah, so that explains it. I just switched from Sprint (which always gave me an IPv4 address) to T-Mobile (which gives me an IPv6 address).
    - jaywalk 7y ago
      My Verizon iPhone has both a public IPv4 address and a public IPv6 address. They certainly could be using CGNAT, but that seems like a weird way to do it.
      - throw0101a 7y ago
        > My Verizon iPhone has both a public IPv4 address and a public IPv6 address. How are you able to tell with IPv4? You cannot run ifconfig on an iPhone, so how are you determining that?
        briffle 7y ago
        Seriously? On Android it's just settings->about phone
- iagovar 7y ago
  Maybe you just don't get to know what problems it causes because they don't talk about it. Dual stack is currently under testing and afaik higher ups are not very happy about it. Maybe we've done too early (it was about five years ago maybe, I don't really remember exactly) and now tooling is better, idk
dan1234 7y ago
Both BT & Sky have managed to deploy IPv6 in the UK, so the problems must be reasonably easy to solve. Unfortunately Virgin Media (my ISP) are still dragging their heels but have decided to go with DS-Lite.

freedomben 7y ago

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. What kind of devices are they? IoT type stuff, smart TVs, etc?

ecksii 7y ago
Right now IoT devices use a communications model that overcome's NAT by tying the device to a service endpoint in the cloud. The device registers itself as an IoT device in aws and then your local hosts hit the device by going to the device endpoint in the cloud. I don't know if this model will hold up when IPv6 more widely supported though.

jaywalk 7y ago

The largest ISP in the US, Comcast, has deployed IPv6 on 100% of their network. If they can do it, why can't you?

notdonspaulding 7y ago
To the best of my knowledge, Comcast is running dual-stack v4 and v6. The GP was talking about running a purely v6 network, and pointing out that it wasn't yet feasible. Your example of Comcast doesn't really fit the bill because Comcast already has a v4 network to all of their customers, and they are not migrating customers to a solely-v6 network. This is the chicken-and-egg problem that all new networks are facing with regard to IPv6 adoption. In order to have a usable network, you have to support IPv4 to all endpoints. But once you have v4 at all endpoints, the incentive to run v6 is greatly diminished. As always, v6 needs a "killer app" that Grandma wants to use that is unavailable over the v4 internet, and then network administrators could use the actual demand from their customers as a justification for moving to v6. Unfortunately, at the moment, the list of v4-only must-have apps is still greater than the list of v6-only must-have apps.
- wmf 7y ago
  v6 with DS-Lite/464/MAP is going to be cheaper than v4-only because it allows the ISP to sell off (or not buy) most of their v4 addresses while also using less equipment. T-Mobile has already adopted this architecture.
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > The GP was talking about running a purely v6 network, and pointing out that it wasn't yet feasible. Amusingly that's how mobile/smartphones are supposedly run: the devices get IPv6-only, and if they need to hit an IPv4-only address they are CGNATed. * https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/deploy360/2014/case-study-t-mobile-us-goes-ipv6-only-using-464xlat/ https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/deploy360/2014/cas... * https://blogs.akamai.com/2016/06/preparing-for-ipv6-only-mobile-networks-why-and-how.html https://blogs.akamai.com/2016/06/preparing-for-ipv6-only-mob...
  - exhilaration 7y ago
    Ah, so that explains it. I just switched from Sprint (which always gave me an IPv4 address) to T-Mobile (which gives me an IPv6 address).
  - jaywalk 7y ago
    My Verizon iPhone has both a public IPv4 address and a public IPv6 address. They certainly could be using CGNAT, but that seems like a weird way to do it.
    - throw0101a 7y ago
      > My Verizon iPhone has both a public IPv4 address and a public IPv6 address. How are you able to tell with IPv4? You cannot run ifconfig on an iPhone, so how are you determining that?
      - briffle 7y ago
        Seriously? On Android it's just settings->about phone
iagovar 7y ago
Maybe you just don't get to know what problems it causes because they don't talk about it. Dual stack is currently under testing and afaik higher ups are not very happy about it. Maybe we've done too early (it was about five years ago maybe, I don't really remember exactly) and now tooling is better, idk

dan1234 7y ago

Both BT & Sky have managed to deploy IPv6 in the UK, so the problems must be reasonably easy to solve. Unfortunately Virgin Media (my ISP) are still dragging their heels but have decided to go with DS-Lite.