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It’s easy to say things like that when you live in a bubble of hypereducated successful people and you are being myopic concentrating on your own field. There

It’s easy to say things like that when you live in a bubble of hypereducated successful people and you are being myopic concentrating on your own field. There is no shortage of heresy in modern culture: astrology, homeopathy, creationism, dianetics, quantum mysticism, anti-aging creams and essential oils, torsion fields, moon landing conspiracy, the Bermuda Triangle, feng shui and yoga woo (at least in the form they are practiced in the West), conversion therapy, graphology, anti-vax, neuro-linguistic programming, phrenology, aryanism, etc. I think Gavin Belsen is an apt caricature of this mindset turned up to 11, a successful Silicone Valley entrepreneur with megalomaniac tendencies and his own exotic, mystic and Eastern spiritual guru. Yes, some people may cry wolf every time a new idea is presented, but oftentimes they are right and the new idea is indeed heresy and maybe even dangerous.

philwelch 7y ago
None of that stuff is heresy. Most of it is crackpottery and kookish, but crackpots and kooks tend to get debunked rather than shouted down. With heretics there’s usually no attempt at good faith counterargument at all.
- LudwigNagasena 7y ago
  Oh, sure, when you agree with something controversial, it is just society being irrational. But when you disagree with something, it is obviously because it is crackpottery. Don’t you think people who are against these “heresies” have exactly the same view?
  - philwelch 7y ago
    Did you even read my comment before replying to it?
    - LudwigNagasena 7y ago
      Yes.
      - philwelch 7y ago
        You clearly either didn’t understand it or just didn’t bother to address the actual point I was making, so I couldn’t tell.
        LudwigNagasena 7y ago
        Have you ever seen a person who believes in such things? They think they are being rational and society just shouts them down. Sometimes it is even true (obviously, society can’t debate the same things over and over, it would be ridiculous to have a discussion on whether rape is bad in prime time every week or so). The most obvious modern examples that makes it into news is the amount of racists, neonazis and misogynists who claim that they just want a debate and a public outcry from a big group of people to deplatform them to the point that they have to pay massive amounts of security fees when they make public speeches. I have addressed your point but it seems you didn’t get, maybe I wasn’t clear enough, I hope in hindsight you will see what I meant. Or look at moon landing conspiracy, or 9/11 conspiracy, people gather massive amount of evidence to support their claims. Simply applying a bit of empathy and retrospection should make you understand what’s the problem what you are saying.
        philwelch 7y ago
        There are actual, fact-based debunkings of moon landing conspiracies, creationism, astrology, etc. That was my entire point and what makes these cases different from the evolution controversy or Lysenkoism.
        LudwigNagasena 7y ago
        Have you read the link?
- sdegutis 7y ago
  Heresy comes from the Greek word for "choose" and it always means to pick-and-choose what to believe, against reason. There are two faults of faith: doubt, or rejecting belief when there's a good reason for it; and superstition, or having faith when there's no good reason for it. (Similarly, the two faults of hope are despair and presumption.) Heresy means picking one of those sides of faith. Superstitions are heresies because there are no good reasons to believe in things like anti-vax, horoscopes, tarot cards, knocking on wood, and anti-aging-cream. Doubts are heresies because there are good and established reasons to believe in things like the moon landing, the Big Bang theory, and evolution.
tlb 7y ago
Do you not live in a bubble of hypereducated successful people? If not, why not? Wouldn't it be more interesting and fun to live in one? The Bay Area has a large one, but any city with a university has a smart bubble.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  I live in New Orleans. We call you “a gifted program”.
buboard 7y ago
that's not heresy, those are pure reactionism.

philwelch 7y ago

None of that stuff is heresy. Most of it is crackpottery and kookish, but crackpots and kooks tend to get debunked rather than shouted down. With heretics there’s usually no attempt at good faith counterargument at all.

LudwigNagasena 7y ago
Oh, sure, when you agree with something controversial, it is just society being irrational. But when you disagree with something, it is obviously because it is crackpottery. Don’t you think people who are against these “heresies” have exactly the same view?
- philwelch 7y ago
  Did you even read my comment before replying to it?
  - LudwigNagasena 7y ago
    Yes.
    - philwelch 7y ago
      You clearly either didn’t understand it or just didn’t bother to address the actual point I was making, so I couldn’t tell.
      - LudwigNagasena 7y ago
        Have you ever seen a person who believes in such things? They think they are being rational and society just shouts them down. Sometimes it is even true (obviously, society can’t debate the same things over and over, it would be ridiculous to have a discussion on whether rape is bad in prime time every week or so). The most obvious modern examples that makes it into news is the amount of racists, neonazis and misogynists who claim that they just want a debate and a public outcry from a big group of people to deplatform them to the point that they have to pay massive amounts of security fees when they make public speeches. I have addressed your point but it seems you didn’t get, maybe I wasn’t clear enough, I hope in hindsight you will see what I meant. Or look at moon landing conspiracy, or 9/11 conspiracy, people gather massive amount of evidence to support their claims. Simply applying a bit of empathy and retrospection should make you understand what’s the problem what you are saying.
        philwelch 7y ago
        There are actual, fact-based debunkings of moon landing conspiracies, creationism, astrology, etc. That was my entire point and what makes these cases different from the evolution controversy or Lysenkoism.
        LudwigNagasena 7y ago
        Have you read the link?
sdegutis 7y ago
Heresy comes from the Greek word for "choose" and it always means to pick-and-choose what to believe, against reason. There are two faults of faith: doubt, or rejecting belief when there's a good reason for it; and superstition, or having faith when there's no good reason for it. (Similarly, the two faults of hope are despair and presumption.) Heresy means picking one of those sides of faith. Superstitions are heresies because there are no good reasons to believe in things like anti-vax, horoscopes, tarot cards, knocking on wood, and anti-aging-cream. Doubts are heresies because there are good and established reasons to believe in things like the moon landing, the Big Bang theory, and evolution.

tlb 7y ago

Do you not live in a bubble of hypereducated successful people? If not, why not? Wouldn't it be more interesting and fun to live in one? The Bay Area has a large one, but any city with a university has a smart bubble.

selimthegrim 7y ago
I live in New Orleans. We call you “a gifted program”.

buboard 7y ago

that's not heresy, those are pure reactionism.