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- corruption, especially in QC If you think corruption is bad in Quebec, look at BC. One of the first things our current government did was to pass a law requ

- corruption, especially in QC If you think corruption is bad in Quebec, look at BC. One of the first things our current government did was to pass a law requiring that all government-funded construction must be performed by workers belonging to unions which donated to the governing party's last election campaign. A short time later, they changed the procurement rules from "lowest cost bid" to "best bid", with the rules for determining "best" explicitly including how many jobs would be created for members of the aforementioned donor unions.

n4r9 7y ago
Do you have any sources for reading up on this? I find it interesting but can't find much after googling. Is it related to CETA?
- srhngpr 7y ago
  I think OP may be referring to this: https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/premier-horgan-to-make-infrastructure-announcement-on-monday https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/premier-horgan-to-m...
jacobush 7y ago
I'm not convinced this is a bad thing, given only the information in your comment.
- cperciva 7y ago
  You're not convinced that it's bad for the government to deliberately overpay for projects in order to funnel money into the pockets of its political donors?
  - kareemm 7y ago
    I’m not sure that’s a fair characterization. Is it clear they’re overpaying? I’m not pro-union but unions aren’t the devil.
    - fiblye 7y ago
      Assuming that comment isn't misrepresenting the issue (I know nothing about Canada and can't say), I think the main focus isn't the unions, but that only organizations that contribute to fattening politicians wallets can build anything. Those organizations just happen to be unions.
    - bluGill 7y ago
      A union that is getting contracts because they contribute to the right people is the corrupt devil. A union that provides for their workers salary, safety, retirement, or whatever other good is fine, but many unions cross the line to not allowing non-union workers fair ground to compete with them and that is evil.
  - jacobush 7y ago
    I'm not convinced it's because the unions are lining the coffers of the politicians. It's not like corporations are strangers to lobbying and influencing either. There have been many problems with non-union subcontractors skimping on workers protections, causing death and injury to workers. I don't know about the situation in Canada, but a few soundbites without data is not going to convince me "union bad", "big construction company good".
    - cperciva 7y ago
      Is the situation clearer when you realize that it's only a subset of unions which are allowed to be involved with public construction contracts? The unions which didn't make "donations" have been shut out.
      - jacobush 7y ago
        That is abhorrent.
      - mthoms 7y ago
        I'd be interested to learn more about this. Do you have a source? Thanks.
chopin 7y ago
Taking lowest cost bid isn't always optimal. In Germany it is required to take the lowest cost bid which leads to all kinds of failed projects as the winning bid can't hold its bid. As well, life-time of things built this way have become awfully short.
- sunstone 7y ago
  Imagine if you were forced to buy all your stuff from the dollar store. Pretty obviously the results would be hit and miss, mostly miss.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    Imagine a twist on this: you have to buy from the dollar store, but they dollar store has agreed on a level of quality. They may have a separate back room with only the things you are allowed to buy because that is where items that meet your quality standard are. (They may or may not allow others into that room) The reality is for big projects quality should always be part of the contract. Use substandard quality materials and the whole contract is void.
    - frandroid 7y ago
      > the dollar store has agreed on a level of quality The problem is that "agree on a level" and "lowest cost" are fundamentally opposite goals which require constant outside monitoring.
  - s1artibartfast 7y ago
    Not if you set the correct requirements.
- tomohawk 7y ago
  The thing to keep in mind is that it is not a bid if it is determined to be unrealistic. It is imperative that the contracting office understand whether a submission is realistic or not. If they do not perform that basic step, then the project will either fail, or be subject to expensive change orders that will likely inflate the costs and schedule massively.
mthoms 7y ago
>One of the first things our current government did was to pass a law requiring that all government-funded construction must be performed by workers belonging to unions which donated to the governing party's last election campaign It's true that (a) workers must join a union when working on gov't projects and (b) The governing NDP is the "pro-union" party and thus, has received millions of donations from said unions. The last part of what you wrote is worded poorly IMHO. Read literally, it seems to imply that donating to the party's campaign is part of the law itself. Which it isn't. I agree, the effect is pretty much the same (due to (a) and (b) above) but I think it's important to clarify that point.

n4r9 7y ago

Do you have any sources for reading up on this? I find it interesting but can't find much after googling. Is it related to CETA?

srhngpr 7y ago
I think OP may be referring to this: https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/premier-horgan-to-make-infrastructure-announcement-on-monday https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/premier-horgan-to-m...

jacobush 7y ago

I'm not convinced this is a bad thing, given only the information in your comment.

cperciva 7y ago
You're not convinced that it's bad for the government to deliberately overpay for projects in order to funnel money into the pockets of its political donors?
- kareemm 7y ago
  I’m not sure that’s a fair characterization. Is it clear they’re overpaying? I’m not pro-union but unions aren’t the devil.
  - fiblye 7y ago
    Assuming that comment isn't misrepresenting the issue (I know nothing about Canada and can't say), I think the main focus isn't the unions, but that only organizations that contribute to fattening politicians wallets can build anything. Those organizations just happen to be unions.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    A union that is getting contracts because they contribute to the right people is the corrupt devil. A union that provides for their workers salary, safety, retirement, or whatever other good is fine, but many unions cross the line to not allowing non-union workers fair ground to compete with them and that is evil.
- jacobush 7y ago
  I'm not convinced it's because the unions are lining the coffers of the politicians. It's not like corporations are strangers to lobbying and influencing either. There have been many problems with non-union subcontractors skimping on workers protections, causing death and injury to workers. I don't know about the situation in Canada, but a few soundbites without data is not going to convince me "union bad", "big construction company good".
  - cperciva 7y ago
    Is the situation clearer when you realize that it's only a subset of unions which are allowed to be involved with public construction contracts? The unions which didn't make "donations" have been shut out.
    - jacobush 7y ago
      That is abhorrent.
    - mthoms 7y ago
      I'd be interested to learn more about this. Do you have a source? Thanks.

chopin 7y ago

Taking lowest cost bid isn't always optimal. In Germany it is required to take the lowest cost bid which leads to all kinds of failed projects as the winning bid can't hold its bid. As well, life-time of things built this way have become awfully short.

sunstone 7y ago
Imagine if you were forced to buy all your stuff from the dollar store. Pretty obviously the results would be hit and miss, mostly miss.
- bluGill 7y ago
  Imagine a twist on this: you have to buy from the dollar store, but they dollar store has agreed on a level of quality. They may have a separate back room with only the things you are allowed to buy because that is where items that meet your quality standard are. (They may or may not allow others into that room) The reality is for big projects quality should always be part of the contract. Use substandard quality materials and the whole contract is void.
  - frandroid 7y ago
    > the dollar store has agreed on a level of quality The problem is that "agree on a level" and "lowest cost" are fundamentally opposite goals which require constant outside monitoring.
- s1artibartfast 7y ago
  Not if you set the correct requirements.
tomohawk 7y ago
The thing to keep in mind is that it is not a bid if it is determined to be unrealistic. It is imperative that the contracting office understand whether a submission is realistic or not. If they do not perform that basic step, then the project will either fail, or be subject to expensive change orders that will likely inflate the costs and schedule massively.

mthoms 7y ago

>One of the first things our current government did was to pass a law requiring that all government-funded construction must be performed by workers belonging to unions which donated to the governing party's last election campaign It's true that (a) workers must join a union when working on gov't projects and (b) The governing NDP is the "pro-union" party and thus, has received millions of donations from said unions. The last part of what you wrote is worded poorly IMHO. Read literally, it seems to imply that donating to the party's campaign is part of the law itself. Which it isn't. I agree, the effect is pretty much the same (due to (a) and (b) above) but I think it's important to clarify that point.