4 ms·

freedesktop have had success in standardising the Linux desktop. I fail to see why gnome, KDE, etc wouldn't eventually standardise around a common screenshot pr

freedesktop have had success in standardising the Linux desktop. I fail to see why gnome, KDE, etc wouldn't eventually standardise around a common screenshot protocol.

sprash 7y ago
Many things that came out of freedesktop.org are pure garbage. The most prominent example is dbus. Personally I hope they have no success in standardizing anything further.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Do tell. I’ve found dbus hard to understand, but it works reliably here.
  - sprash 7y ago
    There are many ways to do IPC on a unix system. Dbus is a reinvention of IPC in the worst possible way. It requires a daemon to run and it requires every client to be able to parse and generate JSON. The worst thing is that those JSON packets are not even human readable most of the time. Protocols that are running on top of that are also not standardized. If you are lucky KDE and GNOME agree on something. Many times they don't.
    - andrewshadura 7y ago
      D-Bus does not use JSON.
      - sprash 7y ago
        Indeed it uses XML which is even worse!
        compressedgas 7y ago
        Only as a description language. The message format is a subset of GVariants.
        sprash 7y ago
        At closer inspection GVariants looks very similar to JSON though.
        compressedgas 7y ago
        Except that it was designed to be read into memory and directly accessed without parsing. A GVariant Array has the form of its elements and their lengths. You can index into an Array in linear time.
    - andrewshadura 7y ago
      I suggest you read up on how D-Bus actually works. E.g. https://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-tutorial.html https://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-tutorial.html
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
"eventually" Windows switched to composited desktop with Vista in 2006 and didn't lose any[0] functionality. 14 years later and we're still saying "eventually" when discussing basic features Wayland should have. [0] Technically it lost a few, the ability to ignore vsync for non-fullscreen applications being the biggest one.
- arghwhat 7y ago
  > and didn't lose any[0] functionality Apart from stability. Jokes aside, this has nothing to do with the protocol as much as the fact that there are vast differences in how an open source project is developed vs. how Microsoft develops. A lot of Wayland development was initially funded by Samsung, which mainly focused on usecases for their smart devices. They then shut down their entire OSS department, so that workforce is out. Now, finally redhat seems to be gearing up a bit, with GNOME Wayland being default on Fedora, and sponsoring Wayland work on things like Firefox. But, even then, things are powered by what people want and care about, rather than just trying to tick every previous feature box available.

freedesktop have had success in standardising the Linux desktop. I fail to see why gnome, KDE, etc wouldn't eventually standardise around a common screenshot protocol.

sprash 7y ago

Many things that came out of freedesktop.org are pure garbage. The most prominent example is dbus. Personally I hope they have no success in standardizing anything further.

mixmastamyk 7y ago
Do tell. I’ve found dbus hard to understand, but it works reliably here.
- sprash 7y ago
  There are many ways to do IPC on a unix system. Dbus is a reinvention of IPC in the worst possible way. It requires a daemon to run and it requires every client to be able to parse and generate JSON. The worst thing is that those JSON packets are not even human readable most of the time. Protocols that are running on top of that are also not standardized. If you are lucky KDE and GNOME agree on something. Many times they don't.
  - andrewshadura 7y ago
    D-Bus does not use JSON.
    - sprash 7y ago
      Indeed it uses XML which is even worse!
      - compressedgas 7y ago
        Only as a description language. The message format is a subset of GVariants.
        sprash 7y ago
        At closer inspection GVariants looks very similar to JSON though.
        compressedgas 7y ago
        Except that it was designed to be read into memory and directly accessed without parsing. A GVariant Array has the form of its elements and their lengths. You can index into an Array in linear time.
  - andrewshadura 7y ago
    I suggest you read up on how D-Bus actually works. E.g. https://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-tutorial.html https://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-tutorial.html

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago

"eventually" Windows switched to composited desktop with Vista in 2006 and didn't lose any[0] functionality. 14 years later and we're still saying "eventually" when discussing basic features Wayland should have. [0] Technically it lost a few, the ability to ignore vsync for non-fullscreen applications being the biggest one.

arghwhat 7y ago
> and didn't lose any[0] functionality Apart from stability. Jokes aside, this has nothing to do with the protocol as much as the fact that there are vast differences in how an open source project is developed vs. how Microsoft develops. A lot of Wayland development was initially funded by Samsung, which mainly focused on usecases for their smart devices. They then shut down their entire OSS department, so that workforce is out. Now, finally redhat seems to be gearing up a bit, with GNOME Wayland being default on Fedora, and sponsoring Wayland work on things like Firefox. But, even then, things are powered by what people want and care about, rather than just trying to tick every previous feature box available.