5 ms·

Agreed, I think Tim has gone off the deep end. The time to be vocal about the future direction of the web was in the wake of the dot com bubble. I think this is

by bArray 7y ago

Agreed, I think Tim has gone off the deep end. The time to be vocal about the future direction of the web was in the wake of the dot com bubble. I think this is just a case of him trying to secure his legacy.

rangibaby 7y ago
"I think this is just a case of him trying to secure his legacy." I think that's a bit harsh. His invention is one of the greatest of all time, that's quite a legacy
- w1nst0nsm1th 7y ago
  Agree. The greatest invention since the printing machine by Gutenberg.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  His invention is one of the greatest of all time I am not saying I would have done any better than him in the circumstances but let’s be honest: TBL didn’t invent hypertext and the WWW is just a poor knock-off of Englebart’s ideas. It has taken millions of people decades to turn the WWW into something that can be secured and scaled and actually be useful to ordinary people. TBL was in the right place at the right time but don’t overestimate his actual contribution. http://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/158/90/ http://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/158/90/
  - goto11 7y ago
    A poor knock of...which actually worked. And IMHO the web was useful to "ordinary people" from day one, given they could get access to the internet.
    - goatinaboat 7y ago
      Sure, but Gopher and WAIS and Archie and Veronica all worked too
      - goto11 7y ago
        Indeed! These were some of the technologies TBL attempted to unify in the web through the concept of URL's.
    - 72deluxe 7y ago
      But does anyone remember trying to use IE2 on Win3.11 or IE3 and having to explicitly type http:// http:// all the time? I actually like seeing the full address instead of the "let's dumb it down instead of educating people" approach modern browser address bars implement (hide everything but the most basic URL). I don't think it was as usable as we like to remember (he did develop it on a NeXT Cube after all, not an average everyday machine), as the spelling-out of domain addresses on the BBC was always a drawn-out lengthy "haych tee tee pee colon forward slash forward slash double-u double-u double-u DOT bee bee see DOT com forward slash..." etc etc etc because it was so new in the 1990s. Of course I do look back in fondness before the unleashing of commercialism on the Internet and it turning into the world's leading cesspit of garbage, tracking and colossal webpages, but that's for another discussion.
  - DEADBEEFC0FFEE 7y ago
    It's a bit unreasonable to expect security and scalability, before it became big and valuable.
  - simonh 7y ago
    People had been trying to implement powerful, useful hypertext systems for decades and done a terrible job, they were all awful. They were built as monolithic centralised applications with built-in databases and a host of over-engineered features. TBL threw all of that out of the window in favour of a simple, lightweight, extensible decentralised system. This was not at all an obvious thing to do. Previous high priests of Hypertext were incensed that this toy system lacking so many 'essential' features became more popular and useful in couple of years than their systems had in decades. None of this was inevitable. If it had been obvious, someone would have already done it.
    - basch 7y ago
      Like many inventions, it wasnt so much originality, as combining the right pieces in an elegant and useful way. The WWW he invented was HTTP+HTML+URL. Three things that may have already existed on their own in some sense. He took giant ideas, off others shoulders, and melded them. I wonder, does his web contract apply to apps that use HTTP+URL but not HTML? Does he intend the word web to be inclusive of not website tech, or does he not care about the rest of the internet thats not "web."
  - pmoriarty 7y ago
    Even before Englebart, there were proto-internet ideas in The Machine Stops by E M Forster, which was written in 1909. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Machine_Stops https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Machine_Stops https://www.ele.uri.edu/faculty/vetter/Other-stuff/The-Machine-Stops.pdf https://www.ele.uri.edu/faculty/vetter/Other-stuff/The-Machi...

by bArray 7y ago

rangibaby 7y ago

"I think this is just a case of him trying to secure his legacy." I think that's a bit harsh. His invention is one of the greatest of all time, that's quite a legacy

w1nst0nsm1th 7y ago
Agree. The greatest invention since the printing machine by Gutenberg.
goatinaboat 7y ago
His invention is one of the greatest of all time I am not saying I would have done any better than him in the circumstances but let’s be honest: TBL didn’t invent hypertext and the WWW is just a poor knock-off of Englebart’s ideas. It has taken millions of people decades to turn the WWW into something that can be secured and scaled and actually be useful to ordinary people. TBL was in the right place at the right time but don’t overestimate his actual contribution. http://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/158/90/ http://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/158/90/
- goto11 7y ago
  A poor knock of...which actually worked. And IMHO the web was useful to "ordinary people" from day one, given they could get access to the internet.
  - goatinaboat 7y ago
    Sure, but Gopher and WAIS and Archie and Veronica all worked too
    - goto11 7y ago
      Indeed! These were some of the technologies TBL attempted to unify in the web through the concept of URL's.
  - 72deluxe 7y ago
    But does anyone remember trying to use IE2 on Win3.11 or IE3 and having to explicitly type http:// http:// all the time? I actually like seeing the full address instead of the "let's dumb it down instead of educating people" approach modern browser address bars implement (hide everything but the most basic URL). I don't think it was as usable as we like to remember (he did develop it on a NeXT Cube after all, not an average everyday machine), as the spelling-out of domain addresses on the BBC was always a drawn-out lengthy "haych tee tee pee colon forward slash forward slash double-u double-u double-u DOT bee bee see DOT com forward slash..." etc etc etc because it was so new in the 1990s. Of course I do look back in fondness before the unleashing of commercialism on the Internet and it turning into the world's leading cesspit of garbage, tracking and colossal webpages, but that's for another discussion.
- DEADBEEFC0FFEE 7y ago
  It's a bit unreasonable to expect security and scalability, before it became big and valuable.
- simonh 7y ago
  People had been trying to implement powerful, useful hypertext systems for decades and done a terrible job, they were all awful. They were built as monolithic centralised applications with built-in databases and a host of over-engineered features. TBL threw all of that out of the window in favour of a simple, lightweight, extensible decentralised system. This was not at all an obvious thing to do. Previous high priests of Hypertext were incensed that this toy system lacking so many 'essential' features became more popular and useful in couple of years than their systems had in decades. None of this was inevitable. If it had been obvious, someone would have already done it.
  - basch 7y ago
    Like many inventions, it wasnt so much originality, as combining the right pieces in an elegant and useful way. The WWW he invented was HTTP+HTML+URL. Three things that may have already existed on their own in some sense. He took giant ideas, off others shoulders, and melded them. I wonder, does his web contract apply to apps that use HTTP+URL but not HTML? Does he intend the word web to be inclusive of not website tech, or does he not care about the rest of the internet thats not "web."
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  Even before Englebart, there were proto-internet ideas in The Machine Stops by E M Forster, which was written in 1909. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Machine_Stops https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Machine_Stops https://www.ele.uri.edu/faculty/vetter/Other-stuff/The-Machine-Stops.pdf https://www.ele.uri.edu/faculty/vetter/Other-stuff/The-Machi...