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> Three more principles call on individuals to create rich and relevant content to make the web a valuable place, build strong online communities where everyone

> Three more principles call on individuals to create rich and relevant content to make the web a valuable place, build strong online communities where everyone feels safe and welcome, and finally, to fight for the web, so it remains open to everyone, everywhere. The "build strong online communities where everyone feels safe and welcome" point seems impossibly idealistic. And indeed, for lack of a better word, boring. I'd rather have a diversity of communities, run however they choose. If someone doesn't feel "safe and welcome", they can just go away. Also, from https://contractfortheweb.org/ https://contractfortheweb.org/: > 1. By working towards a more inclusive Web: > a. Adopting best practices on civil discourse online and educating the next generation on these matters. Why must all discourse be "civil"? I mean, that's a value here at HN. But it's not one for the chans. So shouldn't people have the right to choose? > b. Committing to amplify the messages of systematically excluded groups, and standing up for them when they are being targeted or abused. I can't help laughing at this. Because I'm like 99% sure that they aren't including neo-Nazis here. Or even the incels who aren't even vaguely neo-Nazi. Anyway, in my ideal internet, everyone could post whatever they want, as anonymously as they want, and as resistant to takedown as they want. And everyone else could choose what to access.

goatinaboat 7y ago
strong online communities where everyone feels safe and welcome A “strong” community necessarily has members and non-members, insiders and outsiders. If it doesn’t it’s not a community in any meaningful sense, it’s just an amorphous crowd. The idea of a community that welcomes everyone literally is a contradiction in terms.
- krapp 7y ago
  If you think of the internet, as a whole, as a single "community" then you're right - and I think it would be infeasible to apply a particular moral or ethical (and inevitably cultural and political) standard at that level, since "the internet" literally encompasses all of humanity. But if the internet is seen for what it is, a network of networks and the web a community of communities then there's no paradox - if one is not comfortable or welcomed in one community, one can move to, or start, another community that more accepting. But then, that allows for exactly the sort of toxic and abusive communities and users that TBL and many others believe are "destroying" the web. And they're kind of correct, but not because these communities exist, per se, or because the 'wrong sorts of people' are allowed to use the web, but because visibility and dialogue has been mostly centralized along a few large platforms with disproportionate influence, and as a result of the effect of SEO and social media algorithms, much of the diversity of the web has been filtered out for the sake of extremist and commercial content.
smolder 7y ago
That's incompatible with copyright enforcement and censorship of child porn, etc. Our society won't tolerate a completely open web because of those things.
- mirimir 7y ago
  That's why we have VPN services, Tor and I2P.

goatinaboat 7y ago

strong online communities where everyone feels safe and welcome A “strong” community necessarily has members and non-members, insiders and outsiders. If it doesn’t it’s not a community in any meaningful sense, it’s just an amorphous crowd. The idea of a community that welcomes everyone literally is a contradiction in terms.

krapp 7y ago
If you think of the internet, as a whole, as a single "community" then you're right - and I think it would be infeasible to apply a particular moral or ethical (and inevitably cultural and political) standard at that level, since "the internet" literally encompasses all of humanity. But if the internet is seen for what it is, a network of networks and the web a community of communities then there's no paradox - if one is not comfortable or welcomed in one community, one can move to, or start, another community that more accepting. But then, that allows for exactly the sort of toxic and abusive communities and users that TBL and many others believe are "destroying" the web. And they're kind of correct, but not because these communities exist, per se, or because the 'wrong sorts of people' are allowed to use the web, but because visibility and dialogue has been mostly centralized along a few large platforms with disproportionate influence, and as a result of the effect of SEO and social media algorithms, much of the diversity of the web has been filtered out for the sake of extremist and commercial content.

smolder 7y ago

That's incompatible with copyright enforcement and censorship of child porn, etc. Our society won't tolerate a completely open web because of those things.

mirimir 7y ago
That's why we have VPN services, Tor and I2P.