5 ms·

Chronic semi-permanent light at night (street lights, signage, lights from businesses like hotels, porch lights, and notably NOT car lights or other transitory

Chronic semi-permanent light at night (street lights, signage, lights from businesses like hotels, porch lights, and notably NOT car lights or other transitory light) is generally unpleasant right? I feel like at best it's an annoyance, and at worst, it's something messing with biologicial cycles. Are there any interesting innovations out there addressing this? Like motion strengthened* street lights? I would be tickled pink to have a Navi-esque drone lighting up my way when I need it rather than having everything lit all the time. *edited from "activated"

khawkins 7y ago
Motion activated lights would be far more distracting. It's easy to become accustomed to a constant lighting, but if lights were going on and off every 1-2 hours through the night, it would be unnerving for anyone triggering them or positioned to see the light. The innovation is living in the countryside on your own land or vacationing in those areas. Being away from people and their lights is a privilege, especially when lights improve safety.
- clmul 7y ago
  I don't think the bright lighting which is rampant in cities improves safety in general, (most) people are perfectly able to see in the dark, and city lights merely make it (because of interfering with the adaptation of the eyes) impossible to see in the spots left without lighting.
- briefcomment 7y ago
  True to your first point, but a compromise like having lights be dim and having them increase to full brightness for approaching traffic may help. Selective darkness is certainly a luxury, but there's no reason we can't innovate away our currently clumsy solutions.
clumsysmurf 7y ago
A hotel nearby replaced all their exterior lighting (several hundred CFLs) with omni-directional LED clusters ~ 6000K. They make the place look like a prison courtyard, and they are painful to walk near after dark (too bright, too harsh). I would think, that as a species we'd all recognize the color temperature of a nice campfire to be comforting and likeable, but I'm honestly surprised some people like these 6000K+ LEDs.
- briefcomment 7y ago
  I've noticed similar unpleasant changes. I would guess cost is the driver as opposed to aesthetic or physiological preference, but I bet/hope new innovations will make the healthier and prettier solutions financially viable.
- jedberg 7y ago
  Those 6K LEDs are super cheap, which is really unfortunate, because they are terrible for both animals and humans.
- fyfy18 7y ago
  I think a lot of it is down to people being clueless about what colour temperatures mean and what should be used in what location. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people assume "higher is better". You also need to consider outdoor lighting such as sodium vapor lamps have much lower colour temperatures of around 1700K, where as off-the-shelf LED bulbs only go as low as 2500K.
  - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
    > You also need to consider outdoor lighting such as sodium vapor lamps have much lower colour temperatures of around 1700K, where as off-the-shelf LED bulbs only go as low as 2500K. I adore sodium vapor lamps. I realize they aren't as "bright" at night, and some people prefer that (largely for safety), but the old lights aren't just romantic - they're less offensive to our senses. They aren't nearly as distracting or, quite frankly, ugly. I feel like modern LED lights are ruining entire cities with their blue glow.
    - ImprovedSilence 7y ago
      I love sodium vapor lights. I find it to be a very pleasing monochromatic glow that makes me excited be walking around town after dark. I think I especially came to be aware of them as in college my campus had them, and it made for some fantastic night photography around the school. My dream would be to have some type of consumer version of them, I would love to put them in my exterior lights, but that doesn't really seem to be a thing....
olalonde 7y ago
> Chronic semi-permanent light at night (street lights, signage, lights from businesses like hotels, porch lights, and notably NOT car lights or other transitory light) is generally unpleasant right? Maybe it's cultural but I generally like those sort of lights at night. If it bothers me at home, I just close the curtains.
- abcpassword 7y ago
  I also prefer light. Crime is bad enough as it is with the lighting we have
- Zak 7y ago
  I'm not sure if the preference is cultural or more variable from person to person. I don't like always-on outdoor lighting; if I want light, I'll bring some. I have to assume I'm in the minority though, as nowhere I've lived has moved to reduce street lighting. I know a couple places that have; the town my mother lives in has banned most always-on outdoor lighting, and another relative's town has removed street lights from some neighborhoods. I think both towns have considerably above-average rates of environmental activism.
  - ip26 7y ago
    Nobody ever got fired for adding another street light. (Or adding another traffic light, for that matter)
  - olalonde 7y ago
    Maybe a difference here is that I live on the 28th floor of a building in one of most densely populated city on earth (Shenzhen). There's always people walking outside so "smart" lights would always be on anyways. I do enjoy darkness when I am in more remote areas.
    - Zak 7y ago
      I'm not necessarily advocating automatically-triggered lighting, though that may be the solution for some places. Always-on lighting may make sense for a space with constant foot traffic all night, depending on how heavy the traffic is. I do think people should view illuminating spaces nobody is using as a problem to be solved. If, however it's just a few people an hour, perhaps they should bring flashlights.
andai 7y ago
Reading through this sub-thread I was struck by the image of an artificial, permanent "full moon": the closest thing we could get to natural light at night. But I reckon having it be full moon all the time would cause problems of its own. I have difficulty sleeping when the moon is full, I'm full of energy. I read this is because of an energy boost (moon and mania share the same root) for hunting, that humans used to hunt in the moonlight.
- a2dam 7y ago
  I think you mean "lunar" and "lunacy."

khawkins 7y ago

Motion activated lights would be far more distracting. It's easy to become accustomed to a constant lighting, but if lights were going on and off every 1-2 hours through the night, it would be unnerving for anyone triggering them or positioned to see the light. The innovation is living in the countryside on your own land or vacationing in those areas. Being away from people and their lights is a privilege, especially when lights improve safety.

clmul 7y ago
I don't think the bright lighting which is rampant in cities improves safety in general, (most) people are perfectly able to see in the dark, and city lights merely make it (because of interfering with the adaptation of the eyes) impossible to see in the spots left without lighting.
briefcomment 7y ago
True to your first point, but a compromise like having lights be dim and having them increase to full brightness for approaching traffic may help. Selective darkness is certainly a luxury, but there's no reason we can't innovate away our currently clumsy solutions.

clumsysmurf 7y ago

A hotel nearby replaced all their exterior lighting (several hundred CFLs) with omni-directional LED clusters ~ 6000K. They make the place look like a prison courtyard, and they are painful to walk near after dark (too bright, too harsh). I would think, that as a species we'd all recognize the color temperature of a nice campfire to be comforting and likeable, but I'm honestly surprised some people like these 6000K+ LEDs.

briefcomment 7y ago
I've noticed similar unpleasant changes. I would guess cost is the driver as opposed to aesthetic or physiological preference, but I bet/hope new innovations will make the healthier and prettier solutions financially viable.
jedberg 7y ago
Those 6K LEDs are super cheap, which is really unfortunate, because they are terrible for both animals and humans.
fyfy18 7y ago
I think a lot of it is down to people being clueless about what colour temperatures mean and what should be used in what location. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people assume "higher is better". You also need to consider outdoor lighting such as sodium vapor lamps have much lower colour temperatures of around 1700K, where as off-the-shelf LED bulbs only go as low as 2500K.
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  > You also need to consider outdoor lighting such as sodium vapor lamps have much lower colour temperatures of around 1700K, where as off-the-shelf LED bulbs only go as low as 2500K. I adore sodium vapor lamps. I realize they aren't as "bright" at night, and some people prefer that (largely for safety), but the old lights aren't just romantic - they're less offensive to our senses. They aren't nearly as distracting or, quite frankly, ugly. I feel like modern LED lights are ruining entire cities with their blue glow.
  - ImprovedSilence 7y ago
    I love sodium vapor lights. I find it to be a very pleasing monochromatic glow that makes me excited be walking around town after dark. I think I especially came to be aware of them as in college my campus had them, and it made for some fantastic night photography around the school. My dream would be to have some type of consumer version of them, I would love to put them in my exterior lights, but that doesn't really seem to be a thing....

olalonde 7y ago

> Chronic semi-permanent light at night (street lights, signage, lights from businesses like hotels, porch lights, and notably NOT car lights or other transitory light) is generally unpleasant right? Maybe it's cultural but I generally like those sort of lights at night. If it bothers me at home, I just close the curtains.

abcpassword 7y ago
I also prefer light. Crime is bad enough as it is with the lighting we have
Zak 7y ago
I'm not sure if the preference is cultural or more variable from person to person. I don't like always-on outdoor lighting; if I want light, I'll bring some. I have to assume I'm in the minority though, as nowhere I've lived has moved to reduce street lighting. I know a couple places that have; the town my mother lives in has banned most always-on outdoor lighting, and another relative's town has removed street lights from some neighborhoods. I think both towns have considerably above-average rates of environmental activism.
- ip26 7y ago
  Nobody ever got fired for adding another street light. (Or adding another traffic light, for that matter)
- olalonde 7y ago
  Maybe a difference here is that I live on the 28th floor of a building in one of most densely populated city on earth (Shenzhen). There's always people walking outside so "smart" lights would always be on anyways. I do enjoy darkness when I am in more remote areas.
  - Zak 7y ago
    I'm not necessarily advocating automatically-triggered lighting, though that may be the solution for some places. Always-on lighting may make sense for a space with constant foot traffic all night, depending on how heavy the traffic is. I do think people should view illuminating spaces nobody is using as a problem to be solved. If, however it's just a few people an hour, perhaps they should bring flashlights.

andai 7y ago

Reading through this sub-thread I was struck by the image of an artificial, permanent "full moon": the closest thing we could get to natural light at night. But I reckon having it be full moon all the time would cause problems of its own. I have difficulty sleeping when the moon is full, I'm full of energy. I read this is because of an energy boost (moon and mania share the same root) for hunting, that humans used to hunt in the moonlight.

a2dam 7y ago
I think you mean "lunar" and "lunacy."