4 ms·

"The core problem is that this rhetorical device precludes discussion of issues (ex: civil rights) by one country (ex: the United States) if that state lacks a

"The core problem is that this rhetorical device precludes discussion of issues (ex: civil rights) by one country (ex: the United States) if that state lacks a perfect record." as a journalist wrote when Trump weaseled out of a discussion in a different context.

jacquesm 7y ago
No, it hasn't got anything to do with that. It is simply that complaining about the same thing that another country does while your own country does it too is hypocritical. You don't need to have a perfect record on everything else, but on that particular thing your statements are moot because your opponent (in this case China) will be able to simply ignore you because you do it yourself too. It would be about as effective as China calling the US to task for the same issue.
- _Microft 7y ago
  > No, it hasn't got anything to do with that. It is simply that complaining about the same thing that another country does while your own country does it too is hypocritical. > You don't need to have a perfect record on everything else, but on that particular thing your statements are moot because your opponent (in this case China) will be able to simply ignore you because you do it yourself too. It would be about as effective as China calling the US to task for the same issue. Neither the BBC nor I are American. So maybe let's approach this in a more constructive manner: would you mind stating how you would discuss the topic of these chinese camps, taking into account both the scale of the problem and the severity of the events (without immediately derailing the discussion again)?
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    > Neither the BBC nor I are American. Good, so no need for you to feel addressed then. > how you would discuss the topic of these chinese camps I would want to see international sanctions against the Chinese government enacted in some world body. I would like to see the very same sanctions enacted against the USA. In both cases we are talking about serious crimes against humanity. Fat chance this will ever happen, precisely because the most powerful parties in that forum are both guilty of the same transgression. If not for that this might have a (slim) chance of success.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- nec4b 7y ago
  America is rounding up kids and putting them in reeducation concentration camps based on which apps they have installed on their phones or for any other arbitrary reason for that matter? Do you really believe that?
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    No, it takes toddlers and other infants away from their parents causing huge trauma for the reason of wanting a better life. And yes, I really believe that. Don't put words in my mouth.
    - nec4b 7y ago
      > No, it takes toddlers and other infants away from their parents causing huge trauma for the reason of wanting a better life. You know that they do not separate them for wanting a better life. They separate them because their parents broke the law and are being processed. The same way child services take away children from parents when they go to prison. It's due process and not because you have the wrong skin color or set of beliefs. Americans are having a discussion about if separating children from parents is necessary and what to do about it, the Chinese are not. And if you really believed what you wrote, you'd be protesting in front of your city's childhood protection services headquarters and you're not.
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        > They separate them because their parents broke the law and are being processed. Funny how no other country seems to have this policy. Mostly because it is inhuman. It's not 'due process' when your head of state and his fascist minion has said it is to discourage people from attempting to flee. Whether or not they are illegal is immaterial (plenty of them are not). If anybody is wondering about how a wealthy and otherwise orderly society can slide into fascism: this is it. To deny other people their humanity is a very important first step.
        nec4b 7y ago

jacquesm 7y ago

No, it hasn't got anything to do with that. It is simply that complaining about the same thing that another country does while your own country does it too is hypocritical. You don't need to have a perfect record on everything else, but on that particular thing your statements are moot because your opponent (in this case China) will be able to simply ignore you because you do it yourself too. It would be about as effective as China calling the US to task for the same issue.

_Microft 7y ago
> No, it hasn't got anything to do with that. It is simply that complaining about the same thing that another country does while your own country does it too is hypocritical. > You don't need to have a perfect record on everything else, but on that particular thing your statements are moot because your opponent (in this case China) will be able to simply ignore you because you do it yourself too. It would be about as effective as China calling the US to task for the same issue. Neither the BBC nor I are American. So maybe let's approach this in a more constructive manner: would you mind stating how you would discuss the topic of these chinese camps, taking into account both the scale of the problem and the severity of the events (without immediately derailing the discussion again)?
- jacquesm 7y ago
  > Neither the BBC nor I are American. Good, so no need for you to feel addressed then. > how you would discuss the topic of these chinese camps I would want to see international sanctions against the Chinese government enacted in some world body. I would like to see the very same sanctions enacted against the USA. In both cases we are talking about serious crimes against humanity. Fat chance this will ever happen, precisely because the most powerful parties in that forum are both guilty of the same transgression. If not for that this might have a (slim) chance of success.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
nec4b 7y ago
America is rounding up kids and putting them in reeducation concentration camps based on which apps they have installed on their phones or for any other arbitrary reason for that matter? Do you really believe that?
- jacquesm 7y ago
  No, it takes toddlers and other infants away from their parents causing huge trauma for the reason of wanting a better life. And yes, I really believe that. Don't put words in my mouth.
  - nec4b 7y ago
    > No, it takes toddlers and other infants away from their parents causing huge trauma for the reason of wanting a better life. You know that they do not separate them for wanting a better life. They separate them because their parents broke the law and are being processed. The same way child services take away children from parents when they go to prison. It's due process and not because you have the wrong skin color or set of beliefs. Americans are having a discussion about if separating children from parents is necessary and what to do about it, the Chinese are not. And if you really believed what you wrote, you'd be protesting in front of your city's childhood protection services headquarters and you're not.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      > They separate them because their parents broke the law and are being processed. Funny how no other country seems to have this policy. Mostly because it is inhuman. It's not 'due process' when your head of state and his fascist minion has said it is to discourage people from attempting to flee. Whether or not they are illegal is immaterial (plenty of them are not). If anybody is wondering about how a wealthy and otherwise orderly society can slide into fascism: this is it. To deny other people their humanity is a very important first step.
      - nec4b 7y ago