3 ms·

The PhD example late in this essay is one that I have lived. I am a failed PhD student who worked for 4 years on my research with no first author publications t

The PhD example late in this essay is one that I have lived. I am a failed PhD student who worked for 4 years on my research with no first author publications to show for it. The professors from my old school always express surprise and confusion that I didn't succeed since I apparently have the right combination of smarts. But, to me, my failure is more down to bad luck and unfortunate circumstance than any inate ability. I would love to hear other's experiences with PhDs in the context of the essay's example.

agumonkey 7y ago
Can you share what happened?
- ImaCake 7y ago
  Sure, the concise version is that I had an essential biology assay not work for three years running. It meant I couldn't do much to generate results. The pressure got to me and I burnt out hard. For whatever reason, the support network I had (including excellent supervisors) wasn't sufficient to overcome or work around the problem. Looking back, diversifying my work and finding short term projects likely would have innoculated me against the effects of the (biggest) problem I faced. After leaving, I have had few regrets (aside from lessons learned). I have had fun jobs, travelled, and had far less stress holding me down. Less money, sure, but more of the really important things.
  - agumonkey 7y ago
    Thanks, sometimes life puts you in weird situations.
ISL 7y ago
Luck matters more than we are often led to believe. One can generate luck, to an extent, through persistence. Leonard Mlodinow has written two books that you might find both resonant and uplifting: Feynman's Rainbow: A Search for Beauty in Physics and in Life , and The Drunkard's Walk: How Randomness Rules Our Lives. Furthermore -- if you went to grad school and learned something, either about the subject or yourself, then the effort was not a failure. In the long game, it isn't about the degree nor the piece of paper.
- ImaCake 7y ago
  Thanks :) I'll check them out. I think leaving was a great choice, academia is filled with madness, and I am happier not climbing up the impossible pyramid to professorship. But I am happy to support and work with those with such ambiition since they can do great things!
trishankkarthik 7y ago
You get it (I was a PhD, too)
pdfernhout 7y ago
Related things I've posted to Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17843735 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17843735 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17519881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17519881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16725676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16725676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16541610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16541610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15911873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15911873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14675362 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14675362 A key connecting idea in all of them is this reference to "Disciplined Minds": http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ "In this riveting book about the world of professional work, Jeff Schmidt demonstrates that the workplace is a battleground for the very identity of the individual, as is graduate school, where professionals are trained. He shows that professional work is inherently political, and that professionals are hired to subordinate their own vision and maintain strict "ideological discipline." The hidden root of much career dissatisfaction, argues Schmidt, is the professional's lack of control over the political component of his or her creative work. Many professionals set out to make a contribution to society and add meaning to their lives. Yet our system of professional education and employment abusively inculcates an acceptance of politically subordinate roles in which professionals typically do not make a significant difference, undermining the creative potential of individuals, organizations and even democracy. Schmidt details the battle one must fight to be an independent thinker and to pursue one's own social vision in today's corporate society." However, even given that experience of enforced ideological conformity to a social power structure (which some people may find an unexpected horror while others go "meh, so what else is new?"), academia is an increasingly bad deal for reasons explained by David Goodstein (the vice-provost of CalTech testifying to Congress in the 1990s on why the economics of academia have changed since the 1970s and peer review is starting to fail as a consequence) and Philip Greenspun (explaining why most women he has met are too socially savvy and socio-economically astute to play the PhD game with plans for an academic career): http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch_art.html http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch_art.html "We must find a radically different social structure to organize research and education in science after The Big Crunch. That is not meant to be an exhortation. It is meant simply to be a statement of a fact known to be true with mathematical certainty, if science is to survive at all. The new structure will come about by evolution rather than design, because, for one thing, neither I nor anyone else has the faintest idea of what it will turn out to be, and for another, even if we did know where we are going to end up, we scientists have never been very good at guiding our own destiny. Only this much is sure: the era of exponential expansion will be replaced by an era of constraint. Because it will be unplanned, the transition is likely to be messy and painful for the participants. In fact, as we have seen, it already is. Ignoring the pain for the moment, however, I would like to look ahead and speculate on some conditions that must be met if science is to have a future as well as a past." http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science "This is how things are likely to go for the smartest kid you sat next to in college. He got into Stanford for graduate school. He got a postdoc at MIT. His experiment worked out and he was therefore fortunate to land a job at University of California, Irvine. But at the end of the day, his research wasn't quite interesting or topical enough that the university wanted to commit to paying him a salary for the rest of his life. He is now 44 years old, with a family to feed, and looking for job with a "second rate has-been" label on his forehead. Why then, does anyone think that science is a sufficiently good career that people should debate who is privileged enough to work at it? Sample bias. ... What about personal experience? The women that I know who have the IQ, education, and drive to make it as professors at top schools are, by and large, working as professionals and making 2.5-5X what a university professor makes and they do not subject themselves to the risk of being fired. With their extra income, they invest in child care resources and help around the house so that they are able to have kids while continuing to ascend in their careers. The women I know who are university professors, by and large, are unmarried and childless. By the time they get tenure, they are on the verge of infertility. ..." From a completely different angle, see also Carol Dweck's research and recommendations about a "Growth Mindset": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Dweck#Mindset_work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Dweck#Mindset_work "Her key contribution to social psychology relates to implicit theories of intelligence, per her 2006 book Mindset: The New Psychology of Success. According to Dweck, individuals can be placed on a continuum according to their implicit views of where ability comes from. Some believe their success is based on innate ability; these are said to have a "fixed" theory of intelligence (fixed mindset). Others, who believe their success is based on hard work, learning, training and doggedness are said to have a "growth" or an "incremental" theory of intelligence (growth mindset). Individuals may not necessarily be aware of their own mindset, but their mindset can still be discerned based on their behavior. It is especially evident in their reaction to failure. Fixed-mindset individuals dread failure because it is a negative statement on their basic abilities, while growth mindset individuals don't mind or fear failure as much because they realize their performance can be improved and learning comes from failure. These two mindsets play an important role in all aspects of a person's life. Dweck argues that the growth mindset will allow a person to live a less stressful and more successful life. ... Dweck advises, "If parents want to give their children a gift, the best thing they can do is to teach their children to love challenges, be intrigued by mistakes, enjoy effort, and keep on learning. That way, their children don't have to be slaves of praise. They will have a lifelong way to build and repair their own confidence." Dweck warns of the dangers of praising intelligence as it puts children in a fixed mindset, and they will not want to be challenged because they will not want to look stupid or make a mistake. She notes, "Praising children's intelligence harms motivation and it harms performance.""

agumonkey 7y ago

Can you share what happened?

ImaCake 7y ago
Sure, the concise version is that I had an essential biology assay not work for three years running. It meant I couldn't do much to generate results. The pressure got to me and I burnt out hard. For whatever reason, the support network I had (including excellent supervisors) wasn't sufficient to overcome or work around the problem. Looking back, diversifying my work and finding short term projects likely would have innoculated me against the effects of the (biggest) problem I faced. After leaving, I have had few regrets (aside from lessons learned). I have had fun jobs, travelled, and had far less stress holding me down. Less money, sure, but more of the really important things.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  Thanks, sometimes life puts you in weird situations.

ISL 7y ago

Luck matters more than we are often led to believe. One can generate luck, to an extent, through persistence. Leonard Mlodinow has written two books that you might find both resonant and uplifting: Feynman's Rainbow: A Search for Beauty in Physics and in Life , and The Drunkard's Walk: How Randomness Rules Our Lives. Furthermore -- if you went to grad school and learned something, either about the subject or yourself, then the effort was not a failure. In the long game, it isn't about the degree nor the piece of paper.

ImaCake 7y ago
Thanks :) I'll check them out. I think leaving was a great choice, academia is filled with madness, and I am happier not climbing up the impossible pyramid to professorship. But I am happy to support and work with those with such ambiition since they can do great things!

trishankkarthik 7y ago

You get it (I was a PhD, too)

pdfernhout 7y ago

Related things I've posted to Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17843735 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17843735 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17519881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17519881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16725676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16725676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16541610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16541610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15911873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15911873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14675362 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14675362 A key connecting idea in all of them is this reference to "Disciplined Minds": http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ "In this riveting book about the world of professional work, Jeff Schmidt demonstrates that the workplace is a battleground for the very identity of the individual, as is graduate school, where professionals are trained. He shows that professional work is inherently political, and that professionals are hired to subordinate their own vision and maintain strict "ideological discipline." The hidden root of much career dissatisfaction, argues Schmidt, is the professional's lack of control over the political component of his or her creative work. Many professionals set out to make a contribution to society and add meaning to their lives. Yet our system of professional education and employment abusively inculcates an acceptance of politically subordinate roles in which professionals typically do not make a significant difference, undermining the creative potential of individuals, organizations and even democracy. Schmidt details the battle one must fight to be an independent thinker and to pursue one's own social vision in today's corporate society." However, even given that experience of enforced ideological conformity to a social power structure (which some people may find an unexpected horror while others go "meh, so what else is new?"), academia is an increasingly bad deal for reasons explained by David Goodstein (the vice-provost of CalTech testifying to Congress in the 1990s on why the economics of academia have changed since the 1970s and peer review is starting to fail as a consequence) and Philip Greenspun (explaining why most women he has met are too socially savvy and socio-economically astute to play the PhD game with plans for an academic career): http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch_art.html http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch_art.html "We must find a radically different social structure to organize research and education in science after The Big Crunch. That is not meant to be an exhortation. It is meant simply to be a statement of a fact known to be true with mathematical certainty, if science is to survive at all. The new structure will come about by evolution rather than design, because, for one thing, neither I nor anyone else has the faintest idea of what it will turn out to be, and for another, even if we did know where we are going to end up, we scientists have never been very good at guiding our own destiny. Only this much is sure: the era of exponential expansion will be replaced by an era of constraint. Because it will be unplanned, the transition is likely to be messy and painful for the participants. In fact, as we have seen, it already is. Ignoring the pain for the moment, however, I would like to look ahead and speculate on some conditions that must be met if science is to have a future as well as a past." http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science "This is how things are likely to go for the smartest kid you sat next to in college. He got into Stanford for graduate school. He got a postdoc at MIT. His experiment worked out and he was therefore fortunate to land a job at University of California, Irvine. But at the end of the day, his research wasn't quite interesting or topical enough that the university wanted to commit to paying him a salary for the rest of his life. He is now 44 years old, with a family to feed, and looking for job with a "second rate has-been" label on his forehead. Why then, does anyone think that science is a sufficiently good career that people should debate who is privileged enough to work at it? Sample bias. ... What about personal experience? The women that I know who have the IQ, education, and drive to make it as professors at top schools are, by and large, working as professionals and making 2.5-5X what a university professor makes and they do not subject themselves to the risk of being fired. With their extra income, they invest in child care resources and help around the house so that they are able to have kids while continuing to ascend in their careers. The women I know who are university professors, by and large, are unmarried and childless. By the time they get tenure, they are on the verge of infertility. ..." From a completely different angle, see also Carol Dweck's research and recommendations about a "Growth Mindset": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Dweck#Mindset_work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Dweck#Mindset_work "Her key contribution to social psychology relates to implicit theories of intelligence, per her 2006 book Mindset: The New Psychology of Success. According to Dweck, individuals can be placed on a continuum according to their implicit views of where ability comes from. Some believe their success is based on innate ability; these are said to have a "fixed" theory of intelligence (fixed mindset). Others, who believe their success is based on hard work, learning, training and doggedness are said to have a "growth" or an "incremental" theory of intelligence (growth mindset). Individuals may not necessarily be aware of their own mindset, but their mindset can still be discerned based on their behavior. It is especially evident in their reaction to failure. Fixed-mindset individuals dread failure because it is a negative statement on their basic abilities, while growth mindset individuals don't mind or fear failure as much because they realize their performance can be improved and learning comes from failure. These two mindsets play an important role in all aspects of a person's life. Dweck argues that the growth mindset will allow a person to live a less stressful and more successful life. ... Dweck advises, "If parents want to give their children a gift, the best thing they can do is to teach their children to love challenges, be intrigued by mistakes, enjoy effort, and keep on learning. That way, their children don't have to be slaves of praise. They will have a lifelong way to build and repair their own confidence." Dweck warns of the dangers of praising intelligence as it puts children in a fixed mindset, and they will not want to be challenged because they will not want to look stupid or make a mistake. She notes, "Praising children's intelligence harms motivation and it harms performance.""