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> Look at Germany for example - I don't think it's easy living there when you knew the 70ies and still be optimistic about the future I remember 1970s Germany

> Look at Germany for example - I don't think it's easy living there when you knew the 70ies and still be optimistic about the future I remember 1970s Germany as a visitor, and it seems to me that the quality of living has improved considerably in several aspects — food, technology, acceptance of diverse life styles, transitioning away from a car centric society, reduction of working hours. This, to me, was especially evident in Berlin, where I have family. What used to be the western part is considerably nicer than it used to be in the 1980s, and the eastern part is even more markedly improved. I first visited Dresden a few years ago (so have no comparison to DDR times), but was stunned at the quality of life there. Now, granted, the rise of extremist parties, especially in the east, shows that not everybody there shares my rosy view. And I'm not acquainted with anybody who lives on Hartz IV. But my relatives, far from being millionaires, still seem to enjoy a decent living standard, including solid health care benefits and decent schools.

mcguire 7y ago
The 70s were before the wall came down. It's claimed that east and west Germany were reintegrated very quickly after reunification, but i am not sure I believe it.
VvR-Ox 7y ago
Then you should talk to people who where actually living there and you will be surprised. Also a look at statistics helps to get rid of this too positively drawn picture. As I said they even fake some numbers to let it appear to be better now. Like e.g. unemployment rate - now everyone who is in a useless training that he doesn't need and that doesn't help to get back into real jobs is not included in the numbers anymore (I think it was when von-der-Leyen announced the numbers herself or round about that time when they changed their work- and unemployment model). While in the 70ies many/most people had good jobs (one was enough to finance a hole family!) nowadays they have minimum wage jobs that don't pay enough for single individuals to really enjoy life. You can be glad not to be bound to get Hartz 4 - this is a nightmare compared to their old social security system. To discuss this further I think we'd have to define "decent standard of living" because I suppose we understand something differently there. The schools are not getting enough money and have a lot of problems they don't want to talk publicly about. If you are interested you should ask some German teachers about that because they tend to have some funny stories about school, the money which is spent and the system itself.

mcguire 7y ago

The 70s were before the wall came down. It's claimed that east and west Germany were reintegrated very quickly after reunification, but i am not sure I believe it.

VvR-Ox 7y ago

Then you should talk to people who where actually living there and you will be surprised. Also a look at statistics helps to get rid of this too positively drawn picture. As I said they even fake some numbers to let it appear to be better now. Like e.g. unemployment rate - now everyone who is in a useless training that he doesn't need and that doesn't help to get back into real jobs is not included in the numbers anymore (I think it was when von-der-Leyen announced the numbers herself or round about that time when they changed their work- and unemployment model). While in the 70ies many/most people had good jobs (one was enough to finance a hole family!) nowadays they have minimum wage jobs that don't pay enough for single individuals to really enjoy life. You can be glad not to be bound to get Hartz 4 - this is a nightmare compared to their old social security system. To discuss this further I think we'd have to define "decent standard of living" because I suppose we understand something differently there. The schools are not getting enough money and have a lot of problems they don't want to talk publicly about. If you are interested you should ask some German teachers about that because they tend to have some funny stories about school, the money which is spent and the system itself.