5 ms·

As fascinating as I find "how" the spies did it, I'm more interested in "why" they did it? Was it dissatisfaction with something in their lives? For the money (

As fascinating as I find "how" the spies did it, I'm more interested in "why" they did it? Was it dissatisfaction with something in their lives? For the money (boring)? Because they didn't want to see the US so far ahead of the USSR?

napsterbr 7y ago
I guess for the same reason a soldier puts his life at risk in a war. Patriotism, keep their family safe etc.
- bdamm 7y ago
  Service-for-school, money, personal safety (army is better than homelessness), fulfilling murderous desires (see current uproar over US Navy SEAL).
- dylan604 7y ago
  You used to be able to join the military instead of serving jail time. So not all reasons are the same.
Haga 7y ago
They knew game theory and wanted to prevent another war.
maxmalysh 7y ago
Money rules the world. Robert Hanssen and Aldrich Ames did this purely for the money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_Ames https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_Ames
everybodyknows 7y ago
Money, Ideology, Compromise+Extortion, Ego. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_spying https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_spying In the case of the early Los Alamos scientists: Ideology
yodon 7y ago
The British during WWII had probably the most successful counter-espionage program in history, because they understood the personal motivations of the people who were interested in spying on them and used those motivations to their advantage. There are many books on the subject, my favorite of which is [0]. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Double-Cross-Story-D-Day-Spies/dp/0307888754/ https://www.amazon.com/Double-Cross-Story-D-Day-Spies/dp/030...
- mcguire 7y ago
  On the other hand, the British intelligence community was riddled with Soviet agents because of their trust in "the right sort of people" like Kim Philby.
  - dboreham 7y ago
    And Anthony Blunt.
  - MobileVet 7y ago
    Read or listen to ‘The Company’ for a fantastic look back at spying during the Cold War. It introduced me to Philby
  - yodon 7y ago
    While true, that was a post-War phenomenon, very different from the state of British counter-intelligence during the war.
- SiempreViernes 7y ago
  I guess this means that counter espionage is invariably shit? Because the Brits graciously donated Klaus Fuchs[1] to the project, and that was after having him interned at first. To be fair tough, Fuchs made important enough contributions that the Manhattan project might well have been too late to bomb japan before the war ended. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Fuchs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Fuchs
- alko4141 7y ago
  I think mister Philby disagrees with you.
mannykannot 7y ago
The linked article on Ted Hall has him explaining why he did it. All such justifications must be taken with a grain of salt, of course, but he claims to have feared that if a post-war depression ensued, the USA could turn totalitarian and fascist, in which case it would be better if the USA did not have a monopoly in nuclear weapons. He also recounts the extent that his views were shaped by his slightly older roommates at Harvard, whom he was obviously in awe of. Rather more self-servingly, he claims that he probably would not have spied if he had known how despotic the Soviet Union was. Money was apparently not involved. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/14/magazine/the-boy-who-gave-away-the-bomb.html https://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/14/magazine/the-boy-who-gave...
DenisM 7y ago
Preventing single-sided nuclear holocaust by creating mutually assured destruction. Plans were drawn up and advocates were seriously proposing to enact them: https://www.businessinsider.com/the-pentagon-estimated-204-atomic-bombs-could-destroy-the-soviets-2014-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/the-pentagon-estimated-204-a...
pvg 7y ago
Ideological sympathies, the Soviet Union was an ally at the time, concern about balance of power given a new superweapon. As rationalizations go, the atomic spies had more to work with than most.
ardy42 7y ago
> As fascinating as I find "how" the spies did it, I'm more interested in "why" they did it? Was it dissatisfaction with something in their lives? For the money (boring)? Because they didn't want to see the US so far ahead of the USSR? IIRC, in the 30s and 40s it was a lot more common and respectable to be a Communist due to the experience of the Great Depression an limited information about the failures of central planning.
- vkou 7y ago
  Also, because many worker rights in the West were only very recently won after a very long and bloody political struggle by socialists, trade unions, etc (Who were bitterly opposed by the government.) When said governments are very clearly acting against their own people, is it no surprise that defectors may choose to side with an opposing ideology?
B1FF_PSUVM 7y ago
Belief in progress, in general, and the URSS being the embodiment of it, in particular. E.g. "I have seen the future, and it works."

napsterbr 7y ago

I guess for the same reason a soldier puts his life at risk in a war. Patriotism, keep their family safe etc.

bdamm 7y ago
Service-for-school, money, personal safety (army is better than homelessness), fulfilling murderous desires (see current uproar over US Navy SEAL).
dylan604 7y ago
You used to be able to join the military instead of serving jail time. So not all reasons are the same.

Haga 7y ago

They knew game theory and wanted to prevent another war.

maxmalysh 7y ago

Money rules the world. Robert Hanssen and Aldrich Ames did this purely for the money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_Ames https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_Ames

everybodyknows 7y ago

Money, Ideology, Compromise+Extortion, Ego. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_spying https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_spying In the case of the early Los Alamos scientists: Ideology

yodon 7y ago

The British during WWII had probably the most successful counter-espionage program in history, because they understood the personal motivations of the people who were interested in spying on them and used those motivations to their advantage. There are many books on the subject, my favorite of which is [0]. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Double-Cross-Story-D-Day-Spies/dp/0307888754/ https://www.amazon.com/Double-Cross-Story-D-Day-Spies/dp/030...

mcguire 7y ago
On the other hand, the British intelligence community was riddled with Soviet agents because of their trust in "the right sort of people" like Kim Philby.
- dboreham 7y ago
  And Anthony Blunt.
- MobileVet 7y ago
  Read or listen to ‘The Company’ for a fantastic look back at spying during the Cold War. It introduced me to Philby
- yodon 7y ago
  While true, that was a post-War phenomenon, very different from the state of British counter-intelligence during the war.
SiempreViernes 7y ago
I guess this means that counter espionage is invariably shit? Because the Brits graciously donated Klaus Fuchs[1] to the project, and that was after having him interned at first. To be fair tough, Fuchs made important enough contributions that the Manhattan project might well have been too late to bomb japan before the war ended. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Fuchs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Fuchs
alko4141 7y ago
I think mister Philby disagrees with you.

mannykannot 7y ago

The linked article on Ted Hall has him explaining why he did it. All such justifications must be taken with a grain of salt, of course, but he claims to have feared that if a post-war depression ensued, the USA could turn totalitarian and fascist, in which case it would be better if the USA did not have a monopoly in nuclear weapons. He also recounts the extent that his views were shaped by his slightly older roommates at Harvard, whom he was obviously in awe of. Rather more self-servingly, he claims that he probably would not have spied if he had known how despotic the Soviet Union was. Money was apparently not involved. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/14/magazine/the-boy-who-gave-away-the-bomb.html https://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/14/magazine/the-boy-who-gave...

DenisM 7y ago

Preventing single-sided nuclear holocaust by creating mutually assured destruction. Plans were drawn up and advocates were seriously proposing to enact them: https://www.businessinsider.com/the-pentagon-estimated-204-atomic-bombs-could-destroy-the-soviets-2014-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/the-pentagon-estimated-204-a...

pvg 7y ago

Ideological sympathies, the Soviet Union was an ally at the time, concern about balance of power given a new superweapon. As rationalizations go, the atomic spies had more to work with than most.

ardy42 7y ago

> As fascinating as I find "how" the spies did it, I'm more interested in "why" they did it? Was it dissatisfaction with something in their lives? For the money (boring)? Because they didn't want to see the US so far ahead of the USSR? IIRC, in the 30s and 40s it was a lot more common and respectable to be a Communist due to the experience of the Great Depression an limited information about the failures of central planning.

vkou 7y ago
Also, because many worker rights in the West were only very recently won after a very long and bloody political struggle by socialists, trade unions, etc (Who were bitterly opposed by the government.) When said governments are very clearly acting against their own people, is it no surprise that defectors may choose to side with an opposing ideology?

B1FF_PSUVM 7y ago

Belief in progress, in general, and the URSS being the embodiment of it, in particular. E.g. "I have seen the future, and it works."