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> It’s not exploitation if adults, without coercion, agree to it of their own free will. This is the only moral stance to take. It is amazing how people, with

> It’s not exploitation if adults, without coercion, agree to it of their own free will. This is the only moral stance to take. It is amazing how people, with totally incomplete information and no matching life experience, decide they can decide for others. Popular example: payday loans are bad. Well sometimes they are the last line of defense between having a working car and being able to go to work vs loosing everything. Just ask them, people may have better reasons than you can imagine. Its the same kind of folks who think that Facebook should be outlawed/heavily regulated because it caused all the ills in the world ("Trump"). No it didn't, stop thinking of other people as gullible idiots and yourself as the one with all the smart ideas.

learnstats2 7y ago
Payday loans are bad - a proper "democracy" would provide fair protections for people who are at risk of losing everything. Payday loans exist because people in vulnerable situations are not protected as they should be.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  Abortions are “bad”. Chemotherapy is “bad”. Payday loans are “bad”. In many cases, the “bad” is less bad than the alternative; I’m opposed to restrictions on freedom of informed choice in general. I would love for the rate of all three of those things to be reduced to zero by effective interventions upstream. Until they are though, I want all of those things to be available options.
  - chr1 7y ago
    Payday loans are a bit different, because someone signs a bad contract by mistake, and then government has to use force to ensure the contract is maintained. Banning payday loans seems like a noble thing to many people, but that simply ignores the real question, which is: what to do if someone signs a stupid contract and then wants to annulate it.
  - learnstats2 7y ago
    I'm saying that payday loans are bad because there is a better alternative today, yes. We could replace payday loans overnight if the government provided decent welfare. So, that's what we should do. It seems like you agree, so hopefully you are contributing to the political/democratic will to do this. That clearly doesn't apply to the other two cases. I also disagree that "interventions" are necessarily preferable.

learnstats2 7y ago

Payday loans are bad - a proper "democracy" would provide fair protections for people who are at risk of losing everything. Payday loans exist because people in vulnerable situations are not protected as they should be.

sokoloff 7y ago
Abortions are “bad”. Chemotherapy is “bad”. Payday loans are “bad”. In many cases, the “bad” is less bad than the alternative; I’m opposed to restrictions on freedom of informed choice in general. I would love for the rate of all three of those things to be reduced to zero by effective interventions upstream. Until they are though, I want all of those things to be available options.
- chr1 7y ago
  Payday loans are a bit different, because someone signs a bad contract by mistake, and then government has to use force to ensure the contract is maintained. Banning payday loans seems like a noble thing to many people, but that simply ignores the real question, which is: what to do if someone signs a stupid contract and then wants to annulate it.
- learnstats2 7y ago
  I'm saying that payday loans are bad because there is a better alternative today, yes. We could replace payday loans overnight if the government provided decent welfare. So, that's what we should do. It seems like you agree, so hopefully you are contributing to the political/democratic will to do this. That clearly doesn't apply to the other two cases. I also disagree that "interventions" are necessarily preferable.