3 ms·

> the benchmark EV for eight years Really? Tesla is spyware on wheels. The first time I can remember hearing about their consumer products was about someone fi

by nullc 7y ago

> the benchmark EV for eight years Really? Tesla is spyware on wheels. The first time I can remember hearing about their consumer products was about someone finding their car remotely disabled because they'd found an ethernet port in it and plugged into it. I mostly see it referenced in a mocking way about conspicuous consumption and weird corporate antics. They were even made fun of on the TV show Silicon Valley. We have an EV at my household (a nissan leaf) which we like very much. A tesla would never have been a consideration. Googling briefly shows that worldwide leafs outnumber tesla on the road by a significant margin. I think we inhabit very different bubbles.

erulabs 7y ago
> Googling briefly shows I do not understand how people can confirm their beliefs so quickly with such little effort. If a stat makes you feel good, you should probably look into more than usual. According to insideevs.com and QZ.com, in the US, there are 133,178 Leafs sold _ever_ since 2010. Since 2017, there have been 190,000 Model 3s sold. Sources: https://qz.com/1703260/teslas-model-3-may-never-catch-up-to-the-nissan-leaf/ https://qz.com/1703260/teslas-model-3-may-never-catch-up-to-... https://insideevs.com/news/347565/nissan-leaf-sales-outlook-us-2019/ https://insideevs.com/news/347565/nissan-leaf-sales-outlook-... When considering globally, 200,000 Leafs were sold in the first 5 years on the market. The Model approaches that number in a single year (2019) in a single country (US). It's _somewhat_ possible, that for a brief period of time in early 2018, it was true there were more Leafs on the road than Teslas, but that's a bit like being a Nokia fan on January 10th, 2007 saying "Oh, but there are far more Nokias than iPhones in the world". Certainly not a "significant margin". It's totally and completely fine to dislike Telsa - and I don't disagree with the spyware comment, but please don't decide a thing, and then go google to find evidence of that thing you decided.
- nullc 7y ago
  Ironically, you chastise me on stats but then use a figure for the leaf half its total global sales. Nissan announced hitting 400,000 total sold in march: https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/release-a70f8c4b4ee0499b978e217ab10f37be-nissan-leaf-first-electric-car-to-pass-400-000-sales https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/release-a70f8c4b4e... It's a little hard to make an apples to apples comparison because tesla was apparently taking money-down preorders for years while Nissan was actually shipping cars. Shipping obviously results in installed base advantages, but preorders obviously result in sales rate advantages. I'll take your word for it that there are just now more tesla on the road although articles at least as recent as two months ago state otherwise-- but that doesn't really contradict my comment above that the statement that the claim that tesla is the 'benchmark ev' is odd to me.
  - sjwright 7y ago
    Hi. I'm the person who described Tesla as making the benchmark EV. You're all completely missing the point talking about sales—the benchmark product in any given category/market is rarely the one with the highest global sales volume anyway. Most people don't want the best in a category, they want the nearest, cheapest or most convenient. The benchmark product in any given category isn't even necessarily the best product (leaving aside the spurious nature of "best") although that's more often true. Tesla's EV products have been the benchmark product which other EVs inevitably get compared. And we know this because every time anyone announces or releases a new EV, most commentators will benchmark it against the nearest Tesla competitor.

by nullc 7y ago

erulabs 7y ago

> Googling briefly shows I do not understand how people can confirm their beliefs so quickly with such little effort. If a stat makes you feel good, you should probably look into more than usual. According to insideevs.com and QZ.com, in the US, there are 133,178 Leafs sold _ever_ since 2010. Since 2017, there have been 190,000 Model 3s sold. Sources: https://qz.com/1703260/teslas-model-3-may-never-catch-up-to-the-nissan-leaf/ https://qz.com/1703260/teslas-model-3-may-never-catch-up-to-... https://insideevs.com/news/347565/nissan-leaf-sales-outlook-us-2019/ https://insideevs.com/news/347565/nissan-leaf-sales-outlook-... When considering globally, 200,000 Leafs were sold in the first 5 years on the market. The Model approaches that number in a single year (2019) in a single country (US). It's _somewhat_ possible, that for a brief period of time in early 2018, it was true there were more Leafs on the road than Teslas, but that's a bit like being a Nokia fan on January 10th, 2007 saying "Oh, but there are far more Nokias than iPhones in the world". Certainly not a "significant margin". It's totally and completely fine to dislike Telsa - and I don't disagree with the spyware comment, but please don't decide a thing, and then go google to find evidence of that thing you decided.

nullc 7y ago
Ironically, you chastise me on stats but then use a figure for the leaf half its total global sales. Nissan announced hitting 400,000 total sold in march: https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/release-a70f8c4b4ee0499b978e217ab10f37be-nissan-leaf-first-electric-car-to-pass-400-000-sales https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/release-a70f8c4b4e... It's a little hard to make an apples to apples comparison because tesla was apparently taking money-down preorders for years while Nissan was actually shipping cars. Shipping obviously results in installed base advantages, but preorders obviously result in sales rate advantages. I'll take your word for it that there are just now more tesla on the road although articles at least as recent as two months ago state otherwise-- but that doesn't really contradict my comment above that the statement that the claim that tesla is the 'benchmark ev' is odd to me.
- sjwright 7y ago
  Hi. I'm the person who described Tesla as making the benchmark EV. You're all completely missing the point talking about sales—the benchmark product in any given category/market is rarely the one with the highest global sales volume anyway. Most people don't want the best in a category, they want the nearest, cheapest or most convenient. The benchmark product in any given category isn't even necessarily the best product (leaving aside the spurious nature of "best") although that's more often true. Tesla's EV products have been the benchmark product which other EVs inevitably get compared. And we know this because every time anyone announces or releases a new EV, most commentators will benchmark it against the nearest Tesla competitor.