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No who you’re reply to, but while I can see that it is a little antagonistic are you suggesting that citizens shouldn’t feel responsible for their government?

No who you’re reply to, but while I can see that it is a little antagonistic are you suggesting that citizens shouldn’t feel responsible for their government? You do realise that the USA is supposed to have a government “of the people, by the people, and for the people”? In my view there isn’t enough responsibility taken by US citizens for their government, certainly stemming from a lack of general citizen engagement in politics in the USA , so it might be actually helpful to remind people that their government is their responsibility.

GuiA 7y ago
Strawman, that is not what I am saying at all. Merely that in space meant to foster constructive conversation - which HN aims to be - ending a comment with "you guys chose to do X" when talking about controversial political decisions goes against the spirit of the space. And if you really believe what you've written, feel free to disclose what government(s) you answer to and what you've personally done to right their wrongs.
- thundergolfer 7y ago
  Perhaps, I'm not that familiar with the "spirit" of HN, but that comment seemed pretty mild to me. To your last sentence, first, yes I believe what I've written. I am an Australian citizen. I personally don't think I do enough to "right [our] wrongs", but that doesn't stop me believing in the principle of democratic responsibility. I recently have gone to a Climate Change protest, voted, and donated 10% of my salary to helping people who deserve help but aren't getting it from our government. Day-to-day I also avoid participating in activities I believe are wrong but which are made illegal/regulated in my society (eg. eating meat). But again, the above is kinda besides the point. I believe in democratic responsibility so look first to question what I'm able to do rather than blaming some third-party, and wouldn't complain about "you guys chose..." phrasing.
Cougher 7y ago
"You do realise that the USA is supposed to have a government “of the people, by the people, and for the people”?" Oh come on. A simple slogan is hardly evidence that we're all individually and collectively responsible for the things our government does.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- thundergolfer 7y ago
  It's hardly a "simple slogan". It's supposed to be the foundational ethos of a democracy. The fact that most people in the USA do not care enough to live by it is a big problem. Unfortunately it seems people like don't even believe in the ethos, so we're quite a long way from where Abe Lincoln wanted his country to be in this respect.
  - Cougher 7y ago
    TIL that Abraham Lincoln founded our country on a vision statement.
    - SAI_Peregrinus 7y ago
      "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." We the People. Not "We the currently elected and appointed politicians and bureaucrats."
wbronitsky 7y ago
The argument that 330+ million people should feel responsible for the outcomes of tens of thousands of elections they cannot vote in is absurd. You might as well say that someone in Germany should take more responsibility for the actions of the Catalonian separatists. It is on its face ridiculous. There is literally nothing I can do about, say, the governor of a state not stepping down when he loses an election.

GuiA 7y ago

Strawman, that is not what I am saying at all. Merely that in space meant to foster constructive conversation - which HN aims to be - ending a comment with "you guys chose to do X" when talking about controversial political decisions goes against the spirit of the space. And if you really believe what you've written, feel free to disclose what government(s) you answer to and what you've personally done to right their wrongs.

thundergolfer 7y ago
Perhaps, I'm not that familiar with the "spirit" of HN, but that comment seemed pretty mild to me. To your last sentence, first, yes I believe what I've written. I am an Australian citizen. I personally don't think I do enough to "right [our] wrongs", but that doesn't stop me believing in the principle of democratic responsibility. I recently have gone to a Climate Change protest, voted, and donated 10% of my salary to helping people who deserve help but aren't getting it from our government. Day-to-day I also avoid participating in activities I believe are wrong but which are made illegal/regulated in my society (eg. eating meat). But again, the above is kinda besides the point. I believe in democratic responsibility so look first to question what I'm able to do rather than blaming some third-party, and wouldn't complain about "you guys chose..." phrasing.

Cougher 7y ago

"You do realise that the USA is supposed to have a government “of the people, by the people, and for the people”?" Oh come on. A simple slogan is hardly evidence that we're all individually and collectively responsible for the things our government does.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
thundergolfer 7y ago
It's hardly a "simple slogan". It's supposed to be the foundational ethos of a democracy. The fact that most people in the USA do not care enough to live by it is a big problem. Unfortunately it seems people like don't even believe in the ethos, so we're quite a long way from where Abe Lincoln wanted his country to be in this respect.
- Cougher 7y ago
  TIL that Abraham Lincoln founded our country on a vision statement.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 7y ago
    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." We the People. Not "We the currently elected and appointed politicians and bureaucrats."

wbronitsky 7y ago

The argument that 330+ million people should feel responsible for the outcomes of tens of thousands of elections they cannot vote in is absurd. You might as well say that someone in Germany should take more responsibility for the actions of the Catalonian separatists. It is on its face ridiculous. There is literally nothing I can do about, say, the governor of a state not stepping down when he loses an election.