4 ms·

Why is moving to Cloudflare dangerous?

thaumasiotes 7y ago
https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ Moving to cloudflare gives cloudflare veto power over any attempt to access your site.
- CraftThatBlock 7y ago
  It's pretty simple, don't say Cloudflare are nazis are you will be allowed on their platform. They have been very vocal about being neutral in almost every case.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    What if I say something less hateful but still negative about Cloudflare? What if I run a website like 8chan?
    - markdown 7y ago
      Why though? If you don't like a service, move elsewhere. They're not obligated to serve your site. It's the same as any brick and mortar business. If my clients attack me, I cut them loose.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    There's a long way between "neutral" and "neutral in almost every case".
  - bArray 7y ago
    Not being able to speak badly about a powerful entity is a sure bad sign for things to come.
    - CraftThatBlock 7y ago
      I don't think speakly badly of is the same thing as "framing" though
      - bArray 7y ago
        If we agree on what you mean by "framing" [1]: > To make up evidence or contrive events so as to > incriminate (a person) falsely. I disagree that calling CloudFlare Nazis is framing them, as the purpose (assumedly) is not to incriminate. Criticizing them by likening their behaviour to that of Nazis or suggesting that the company is filled with fascists may be in reality false, but a valid criticism regardless. [1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/framed https://www.thefreedictionary.com/framed
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- nl 7y ago
  But you are completely free to leave if they don't like you.
fyp 7y ago
There's an overblown meme floating around that cloudflare is a man-in-the-middle attack on your SSL connection. But even if you don't use cloudflare, your SSL connection typically terminates at your cloud provider's load balancers anyway. Would people then say the load balancer is a MITM attack? At some point you just have to trust the cloud infrastructure you paid for.
- vezycash 7y ago
  That's not the issue. The issue is that as more of the web uses cloudflare, it becomes a gatekeeper of the web. Any person that cloudflare kicks out will be cut off from much of the web. (It's already happening, with people having to solve captcha like it's their day job) Even if cloudflare doesn't misuse their power, something worse happens. Cloudflare becomes an easy OFF Switch for laws, warrants and copyright trolls to track people or kick both content and people off the internet.
  - bArray 7y ago
    I'll go one step further and simply call it a voluntary (by server owners) centralization of the web. Blocking the Daily Stormer (rightly or wrongly) shows that they are a political entity.
    - cannonedhamster 7y ago
      Or that they're a business that doesn't want that kind of publicity. Just because you have a loudspeaker and a podium at your business doesn't mean you need to let everyone walking in to your office use it. Just as Chick-fil-A chooses not to be open on Sundays, Walmart chooses to sell bullets not guns, and Dunkin chose to make their company name really stupid sounding they're allowed to make business decisions good, bad, it otherwise because they think it will be the best thing for their bottom line.
  - Bnshsysjab 7y ago
    CF have booted off a neonazi site, and general filtering will very likely occur at the DNS level. At the very least, some filtering of internet content probably isn’t the worst thing in the world. I’m not disregarding the possibility or risk, but there are far greater problems that deserve our communities attention more than CF.

https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ Moving to cloudflare gives cloudflare veto power over any attempt to access your site.

CraftThatBlock 7y ago
It's pretty simple, don't say Cloudflare are nazis are you will be allowed on their platform. They have been very vocal about being neutral in almost every case.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  What if I say something less hateful but still negative about Cloudflare? What if I run a website like 8chan?
  - markdown 7y ago
    Why though? If you don't like a service, move elsewhere. They're not obligated to serve your site. It's the same as any brick and mortar business. If my clients attack me, I cut them loose.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  There's a long way between "neutral" and "neutral in almost every case".
- bArray 7y ago
  Not being able to speak badly about a powerful entity is a sure bad sign for things to come.
  - CraftThatBlock 7y ago
    I don't think speakly badly of is the same thing as "framing" though
    - bArray 7y ago
      If we agree on what you mean by "framing" [1]: > To make up evidence or contrive events so as to > incriminate (a person) falsely. I disagree that calling CloudFlare Nazis is framing them, as the purpose (assumedly) is not to incriminate. Criticizing them by likening their behaviour to that of Nazis or suggesting that the company is filled with fascists may be in reality false, but a valid criticism regardless. [1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/framed https://www.thefreedictionary.com/framed
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
nl 7y ago
But you are completely free to leave if they don't like you.

fyp 7y ago

There's an overblown meme floating around that cloudflare is a man-in-the-middle attack on your SSL connection. But even if you don't use cloudflare, your SSL connection typically terminates at your cloud provider's load balancers anyway. Would people then say the load balancer is a MITM attack? At some point you just have to trust the cloud infrastructure you paid for.

vezycash 7y ago
That's not the issue. The issue is that as more of the web uses cloudflare, it becomes a gatekeeper of the web. Any person that cloudflare kicks out will be cut off from much of the web. (It's already happening, with people having to solve captcha like it's their day job) Even if cloudflare doesn't misuse their power, something worse happens. Cloudflare becomes an easy OFF Switch for laws, warrants and copyright trolls to track people or kick both content and people off the internet.
- bArray 7y ago
  I'll go one step further and simply call it a voluntary (by server owners) centralization of the web. Blocking the Daily Stormer (rightly or wrongly) shows that they are a political entity.
  - cannonedhamster 7y ago
    Or that they're a business that doesn't want that kind of publicity. Just because you have a loudspeaker and a podium at your business doesn't mean you need to let everyone walking in to your office use it. Just as Chick-fil-A chooses not to be open on Sundays, Walmart chooses to sell bullets not guns, and Dunkin chose to make their company name really stupid sounding they're allowed to make business decisions good, bad, it otherwise because they think it will be the best thing for their bottom line.
- Bnshsysjab 7y ago
  CF have booted off a neonazi site, and general filtering will very likely occur at the DNS level. At the very least, some filtering of internet content probably isn’t the worst thing in the world. I’m not disregarding the possibility or risk, but there are far greater problems that deserve our communities attention more than CF.