4 ms·

I don’t understand the issue here, and it frankly feels like a manufactured outrage from a minority group of activists. If customers voluntarily release a segme

I don’t understand the issue here, and it frankly feels like a manufactured outrage from a minority group of activists. If customers voluntarily release a segment of video to law enforcement, so what? That’s their right. People do so in the interest of preventing crime. I don’t have any cameras myself but I completely sympathize with neighbors who have Ring cameras given the huge uptick in property crime here in the last five years. I’m all for amazon building in facial recognition that works across their network of Ring customers and their cameras. As for the indefinite retention - what do you think happens if you were to give the police evidence that helps nab a criminal in a non-IoT world? They store it and retain it. Why would this be any different?

9dl 7y ago
True What problem if I (anyone) can know where are you now at any point of time, even you newer allow that Or any law enforcement agency can arrest you even if you do nothing and software just wrongly identify your face on crime scene And god forbid if you have not white skin color
- throwawaysea 7y ago
  What does skin color have to with this? That seems like reckless alarmism. Humans are in the loop to validate facial recognition matches. It’s a first pass filter.
  - Jamwinner 7y ago
    Ever seen africian or latino men on a grainy camera? It kinda does matter.
    - throwawaysea 7y ago
      Ring cameras aren’t grainy. These are new, 1080p cameras, many with night vision capability. And again, if a human is in the loop then you are talking about a problem that is orthogonal to cameras - would a police officer jump to conclusions based on a poor, grainy match on non-IoT cameras or on photographs? Maybe on rare occasion, but the vast majority of the time, they wouldn’t.
  - 9dl 7y ago
    https://academic.oup.com/policing/advance-article/doi/10.1093/police/paz035/5518992 https://academic.oup.com/policing/advance-article/doi/10.109... https://idatassist.com/can-really-trust-algorithm-predicting-child-abuse/ https://idatassist.com/can-really-trust-algorithm-predicting... https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessments-in-criminal-sentencing https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessm... Yup, that alarmism about reality we live Some DS just not really know or understand how to clean datasets So some models suddenly use skin color as main predictor of some bad thing And I assume that you ok with total surveillance. Hmmm
t34543 7y ago
I have access to my neighbors ring doorbell so I can keep an eye on my home. It tells me about all the local crime and tries to make me afraid. People report door to door salesmen as suspicious. Get real. The real crime here is fear mongering presumably to sell more security products.
- throwawaysea 7y ago
  Fear mongering? Property crime is up in many cities. That’s real. The fear mongering is from those attacking Internet-connected cameras and creating a fake outrage when people are just exercising their constitutional rights to record video and exchange information. The entire notion that voluntary disclosure of information will lead to a dystopia is not just the slippery slope fallacy but also ACTUAL fear mongering in action. And yes it is proper to suspect door to door salesman. Many are criminals casing homes and pretending they are someone else with an alibi. Having them on the radar is appropriate.
  - eropple 7y ago
    I don't know how to say this any nicer than this: I'm sorry you live in such fear. It isn’t normal and you should figure out why and work to fix it. I live in one of the most densely populated areas of the country. I've been here for a decade. Not only have I never seen so much as mere property crime (and it is "mere"), I don't have any reason to fear it. T the contrary--I have a greater reason to fear the unregulated panopticon the fearful wish to impose upon me. Your attitude makes society worse and you should rethink it.
    - throwawaysea 7y ago
      You are accusing me of living in fear and yet you’re painting a picture of a “panopticon” that is itself fear based and hypothetical, whereas my fear has real crimes and statistics behind it. We retain police forces because deterring crime and catching criminals is important. Making the job of the police easier helps society get better, not worse. Your position seems to be that we should be ok with criminals being free and out at large, potentially victimizing others too. Have you ever been the victim of a crime? Like an assault or burglary? If someone gets raped do you tell them “it isn’t normal to be fearful and you should work on fixing that?” This seems like textbook victim-shaming to me. Helping solve crime is not the same as a dystopia.
frereubu 7y ago
This sounds very much like "if you've done nothing wrong, what do you have to hide?"

9dl 7y ago

True What problem if I (anyone) can know where are you now at any point of time, even you newer allow that Or any law enforcement agency can arrest you even if you do nothing and software just wrongly identify your face on crime scene And god forbid if you have not white skin color

throwawaysea 7y ago
What does skin color have to with this? That seems like reckless alarmism. Humans are in the loop to validate facial recognition matches. It’s a first pass filter.
- Jamwinner 7y ago
  Ever seen africian or latino men on a grainy camera? It kinda does matter.
  - throwawaysea 7y ago
    Ring cameras aren’t grainy. These are new, 1080p cameras, many with night vision capability. And again, if a human is in the loop then you are talking about a problem that is orthogonal to cameras - would a police officer jump to conclusions based on a poor, grainy match on non-IoT cameras or on photographs? Maybe on rare occasion, but the vast majority of the time, they wouldn’t.
- 9dl 7y ago
  https://academic.oup.com/policing/advance-article/doi/10.1093/police/paz035/5518992 https://academic.oup.com/policing/advance-article/doi/10.109... https://idatassist.com/can-really-trust-algorithm-predicting-child-abuse/ https://idatassist.com/can-really-trust-algorithm-predicting... https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessments-in-criminal-sentencing https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessm... Yup, that alarmism about reality we live Some DS just not really know or understand how to clean datasets So some models suddenly use skin color as main predictor of some bad thing And I assume that you ok with total surveillance. Hmmm

t34543 7y ago

I have access to my neighbors ring doorbell so I can keep an eye on my home. It tells me about all the local crime and tries to make me afraid. People report door to door salesmen as suspicious. Get real. The real crime here is fear mongering presumably to sell more security products.

throwawaysea 7y ago
Fear mongering? Property crime is up in many cities. That’s real. The fear mongering is from those attacking Internet-connected cameras and creating a fake outrage when people are just exercising their constitutional rights to record video and exchange information. The entire notion that voluntary disclosure of information will lead to a dystopia is not just the slippery slope fallacy but also ACTUAL fear mongering in action. And yes it is proper to suspect door to door salesman. Many are criminals casing homes and pretending they are someone else with an alibi. Having them on the radar is appropriate.
- eropple 7y ago
  I don't know how to say this any nicer than this: I'm sorry you live in such fear. It isn’t normal and you should figure out why and work to fix it. I live in one of the most densely populated areas of the country. I've been here for a decade. Not only have I never seen so much as mere property crime (and it is "mere"), I don't have any reason to fear it. T the contrary--I have a greater reason to fear the unregulated panopticon the fearful wish to impose upon me. Your attitude makes society worse and you should rethink it.
  - throwawaysea 7y ago
    You are accusing me of living in fear and yet you’re painting a picture of a “panopticon” that is itself fear based and hypothetical, whereas my fear has real crimes and statistics behind it. We retain police forces because deterring crime and catching criminals is important. Making the job of the police easier helps society get better, not worse. Your position seems to be that we should be ok with criminals being free and out at large, potentially victimizing others too. Have you ever been the victim of a crime? Like an assault or burglary? If someone gets raped do you tell them “it isn’t normal to be fearful and you should work on fixing that?” This seems like textbook victim-shaming to me. Helping solve crime is not the same as a dystopia.

frereubu 7y ago

This sounds very much like "if you've done nothing wrong, what do you have to hide?"