4 ms·

Sometimes I wonder if I picked the wrong career from just viewing how analyzed this field happens to be. Every year a blog post I see about how to make things b

by sysbin 7y ago

Sometimes I wonder if I picked the wrong career from just viewing how analyzed this field happens to be. Every year a blog post I see about how to make things better or what's wrong and needing to change things up. I've never seen these constant blog posts on management & burn out for other high paying professions. I'm starting to wonder if programmers are just being psychologically manipulated every year to decrease the value of the skill and so companies can get more out of their money.

hombre_fatal 7y ago
I'm paid a lot and I work remotely from a beach. If I don't like my job, I can easily find another that I do like. Not too many other professions can say that. None of the doctors in my family can. Though at least they are saving lives, something else most professions can't say they do. :) We are lucky this field is so lucrative, especially in the US. Let's enjoy it while it lasts.
- zzzcpan 7y ago
  > I'm paid a lot and I work remotely from a beach. If I don't like my job, I can easily find another that I do like. > Not too many other professions can say that. Software engineers can't say that, if that's what you are implying. I don't know who can actually, which profession is so lucrative and with so little supply of professionals, that finding a well payed remote job that you like is even a possibility?
  - _vertigo 7y ago
    Good software engineers in the United States absolutely can say that. Remote work typically pays less than work in high CoL areas but it still pays well. Additionally there are a lot of jobs out there. Personally I know that if I quit tomorrow I could easily have a job in less than a month. This isn’t going to be true in every area but it is absolutely true in the Bay Area currently.
    - turk73 7y ago
      Don't get used to it. Over 40, it gets harder, late 40s, harder some more. Over 50, you better have made all the money you wanted to make because there are zero guarantees after that.
  - aianus 7y ago
    Depends on your definition of well paid. Living on $50/h remotely in Vietnam is much more luxurious than $120/h butt-in-seat in San Francisco although it’s a lot less money in absolute terms.
- jonathonf 7y ago
  I wish those people who find they can easily find another job without any effort or worry would realise they are not normal. For the majority of people finding a half-decent job takes a stupid amount of time (the number of jobs advertised which simply list a set of "technology words" and end in a black hole is not insignificant), and even if you do find a reasonable position being advertised then it's perfectly normal to never get any sort of response back.
njharman 7y ago
That is due I in part, perhaps largely, on the nature of software developers. We are problem solvers, analyzers, focused on finding more efficient/elegant/faster/etc solutions. We pick things apart, to understand them, so we can build systems that do those things and or do them better. Its inevitable that we apply these qualities to ourselves and our industry. I see similar in other technical creative industries. Some engineering and sciences.
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
HN is a software-heavy site, so you read a lot about software burnout here. If it were a medical-heavy site, I suspect you'd read a lot about doctor burnout (I still see that here sometimes, even though it's not really a medical site). But doctors are the one counterexample that came to mind. Do architects burn out? Do civil engineers? Electrical engineers?
- zzzcpan 7y ago
  > Do architects burn out? Do civil engineers? Electrical engineers? In all of those fields projects eventually get finished and involve a lot of bureaucracy and waiting. There is much more breathing room, than in software and more time to recover.
- intrepidhero 7y ago
  EE here. You could replace every instance of software engineer in the article with electrical engineer and it would absolutely ring true. I think the most important point was that engineering is an essentially creative profession but many of us are not valued for our creativity.
- fian 7y ago
  I have friends who work in medium sized architecture firms. They all say the office culture is for very long hours, led by the architects. You don't get to iterate much on a building design once construction has begun.
- harimau777 7y ago
  My understanding, although maybe this is just rumor, was that architecture had one of the highest suicide rates of any profession. My theory was that it was because it is a demanding job (comparable to engineering or medicine) but most buildings aren't really architectured. I mean how many sky-scrapers, museums, and city halls are there in the world compared to the number of mcmansions and nondescript office buildings.
helij 7y ago
We're thinkers and want to be free. That's why there is this analysis going on and consequently burnout (due to not being completely free).
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
neonate 7y ago
It's mostly programmers writing these. It's shop talk.
ThrowawayR2 7y ago
> I've never seen these constant blog posts on management & burn out for other high paying professions. If you haven't, you haven't looked. There are plenty of postings and articles on burnout in the legal, medical/dental, and other professions.
matheusmoreira 7y ago
> I've never seen these constant blog posts on management & burn out for other high paying professions. Allow me to demonstrate. Here are some threads currently on the first page of the medical residency subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Residency/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Residency/ > [stickied] The Official Burnout or 'Call for Help' Support Thread > How do you deal with demanding family members? > [Rant] Tired of the bullshit > When you’re an intern and the attending doesn’t even bother to learn your name. > Residents of Reddit: did you regret your specialty choice, and if so, what specialty and why? > Chiefs, why so much intern hate? > Propaganda in our hospital. “Let everyone know you’re unavailable because you’re passionate” > Here’s reason why I don’t like going to work > Depression in Medical Internship > HCA, the for-profit residency experience.
- larnmar 7y ago
  Or, for another random example, check out Wall Street Oasis: > How to quit the rat race > Depressed from recruiting > Finance sucks compared to tech if youre (sic) smart And so forth
- nickthemagicman 7y ago
  OF course there's going to be people posting stuff to reddit? Theres people posting about not like their chosen furry animal on reddit. Medicine does not have multiple schools of project management controlling them. Agile, waterfall, V-Shaped, Iterative, Spiral, and the list goes on. Medicine is not a shit show by default because peoples lives are on the line. Software is extremely disposable so it's super easy to turn into a shit show and treat devs like commodities.
- pinkfoot 7y ago
  There is a big difference between a resident (=student) and say a specialist with 30 years experience. I'd like to see the threads where senior oncologists are complaining.

by sysbin 7y ago

hombre_fatal 7y ago

I'm paid a lot and I work remotely from a beach. If I don't like my job, I can easily find another that I do like. Not too many other professions can say that. None of the doctors in my family can. Though at least they are saving lives, something else most professions can't say they do. :) We are lucky this field is so lucrative, especially in the US. Let's enjoy it while it lasts.

zzzcpan 7y ago
> I'm paid a lot and I work remotely from a beach. If I don't like my job, I can easily find another that I do like. > Not too many other professions can say that. Software engineers can't say that, if that's what you are implying. I don't know who can actually, which profession is so lucrative and with so little supply of professionals, that finding a well payed remote job that you like is even a possibility?
- _vertigo 7y ago
  Good software engineers in the United States absolutely can say that. Remote work typically pays less than work in high CoL areas but it still pays well. Additionally there are a lot of jobs out there. Personally I know that if I quit tomorrow I could easily have a job in less than a month. This isn’t going to be true in every area but it is absolutely true in the Bay Area currently.
  - turk73 7y ago
    Don't get used to it. Over 40, it gets harder, late 40s, harder some more. Over 50, you better have made all the money you wanted to make because there are zero guarantees after that.
- aianus 7y ago
  Depends on your definition of well paid. Living on $50/h remotely in Vietnam is much more luxurious than $120/h butt-in-seat in San Francisco although it’s a lot less money in absolute terms.
jonathonf 7y ago
I wish those people who find they can easily find another job without any effort or worry would realise they are not normal. For the majority of people finding a half-decent job takes a stupid amount of time (the number of jobs advertised which simply list a set of "technology words" and end in a black hole is not insignificant), and even if you do find a reasonable position being advertised then it's perfectly normal to never get any sort of response back.

njharman 7y ago

That is due I in part, perhaps largely, on the nature of software developers. We are problem solvers, analyzers, focused on finding more efficient/elegant/faster/etc solutions. We pick things apart, to understand them, so we can build systems that do those things and or do them better. Its inevitable that we apply these qualities to ourselves and our industry. I see similar in other technical creative industries. Some engineering and sciences.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

HN is a software-heavy site, so you read a lot about software burnout here. If it were a medical-heavy site, I suspect you'd read a lot about doctor burnout (I still see that here sometimes, even though it's not really a medical site). But doctors are the one counterexample that came to mind. Do architects burn out? Do civil engineers? Electrical engineers?

zzzcpan 7y ago
> Do architects burn out? Do civil engineers? Electrical engineers? In all of those fields projects eventually get finished and involve a lot of bureaucracy and waiting. There is much more breathing room, than in software and more time to recover.
intrepidhero 7y ago
EE here. You could replace every instance of software engineer in the article with electrical engineer and it would absolutely ring true. I think the most important point was that engineering is an essentially creative profession but many of us are not valued for our creativity.
fian 7y ago
I have friends who work in medium sized architecture firms. They all say the office culture is for very long hours, led by the architects. You don't get to iterate much on a building design once construction has begun.
harimau777 7y ago
My understanding, although maybe this is just rumor, was that architecture had one of the highest suicide rates of any profession. My theory was that it was because it is a demanding job (comparable to engineering or medicine) but most buildings aren't really architectured. I mean how many sky-scrapers, museums, and city halls are there in the world compared to the number of mcmansions and nondescript office buildings.

helij 7y ago

We're thinkers and want to be free. That's why there is this analysis going on and consequently burnout (due to not being completely free).

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

neonate 7y ago

It's mostly programmers writing these. It's shop talk.

ThrowawayR2 7y ago

> I've never seen these constant blog posts on management & burn out for other high paying professions. If you haven't, you haven't looked. There are plenty of postings and articles on burnout in the legal, medical/dental, and other professions.

matheusmoreira 7y ago

> I've never seen these constant blog posts on management & burn out for other high paying professions. Allow me to demonstrate. Here are some threads currently on the first page of the medical residency subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Residency/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Residency/ > [stickied] The Official Burnout or 'Call for Help' Support Thread > How do you deal with demanding family members? > [Rant] Tired of the bullshit > When you’re an intern and the attending doesn’t even bother to learn your name. > Residents of Reddit: did you regret your specialty choice, and if so, what specialty and why? > Chiefs, why so much intern hate? > Propaganda in our hospital. “Let everyone know you’re unavailable because you’re passionate” > Here’s reason why I don’t like going to work > Depression in Medical Internship > HCA, the for-profit residency experience.

larnmar 7y ago
Or, for another random example, check out Wall Street Oasis: > How to quit the rat race > Depressed from recruiting > Finance sucks compared to tech if youre (sic) smart And so forth
nickthemagicman 7y ago
OF course there's going to be people posting stuff to reddit? Theres people posting about not like their chosen furry animal on reddit. Medicine does not have multiple schools of project management controlling them. Agile, waterfall, V-Shaped, Iterative, Spiral, and the list goes on. Medicine is not a shit show by default because peoples lives are on the line. Software is extremely disposable so it's super easy to turn into a shit show and treat devs like commodities.
pinkfoot 7y ago
There is a big difference between a resident (=student) and say a specialist with 30 years experience. I'd like to see the threads where senior oncologists are complaining.