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Yes, but work ethic and obsession are the absolute baseline you need.

malnourish 7y ago
I think even that point is debatable depending on how you define success. If the definition of success is wealth or notoriety, there are certainly people who achieve it without those traits.
- icelancer 7y ago
  The fact that people become successful and/or notorious due to luck does not invalidate the fact that work ethic and your efforts play the largest controllable role you have. To focus on pure chance outcomes is unproductive and nonsensical.
pmoriarty 7y ago
I find it sad and disturbing that so many people worship being a workaholic.
- friedman23 7y ago
  People worship success. Turns out to be better than other hard working people you need to work extremely hard.
  - fzeroracer 7y ago
    Being better than other hard working people can also involve simply kicking the ladder from underneath you, playing the social status game or making bets at the edge of the law and shoving that risk onto other people. And sometimes no matter how hard you work, you're one of those people under the rungs.
  - pmoriarty 7y ago
    Success (by which most people mean financial success, fame, or winning in some competition) is certainly worshipped. However, just being "a hard worker" in itself is considered a virtue by many people. I hesitate to call it the Protestant Work Ethic or the Puritan Work Ethic, as it's far from limited to Protestants or Puritans, but that's really what it is. The harder you work, the more virtuous you are considered to be, and working less is considered sinful or lazy (in other words, unvirtuous and blame-worthy).
jiux 7y ago
Those do help. Have you given thought to whether these are the absolute baseline...or actually the consequences of practices more fundamental?
philwelch 7y ago
Most professional athletes aren’t obsessive just because they have a weirdly specific passion for their sport. They’re obsessive because they’re pathologically competitive. There’s stories about eg Michael Jordan buying a ping pong table and obsessively practicing at ping pong because he had a teammate who beat him at ping pong once and he wasn’t able to let it go until he beat the guy in a rematch. Obsession can come from many sources.

I think even that point is debatable depending on how you define success. If the definition of success is wealth or notoriety, there are certainly people who achieve it without those traits.

icelancer 7y ago
The fact that people become successful and/or notorious due to luck does not invalidate the fact that work ethic and your efforts play the largest controllable role you have. To focus on pure chance outcomes is unproductive and nonsensical.

pmoriarty 7y ago

I find it sad and disturbing that so many people worship being a workaholic.

friedman23 7y ago
People worship success. Turns out to be better than other hard working people you need to work extremely hard.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  Being better than other hard working people can also involve simply kicking the ladder from underneath you, playing the social status game or making bets at the edge of the law and shoving that risk onto other people. And sometimes no matter how hard you work, you're one of those people under the rungs.
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  Success (by which most people mean financial success, fame, or winning in some competition) is certainly worshipped. However, just being "a hard worker" in itself is considered a virtue by many people. I hesitate to call it the Protestant Work Ethic or the Puritan Work Ethic, as it's far from limited to Protestants or Puritans, but that's really what it is. The harder you work, the more virtuous you are considered to be, and working less is considered sinful or lazy (in other words, unvirtuous and blame-worthy).

jiux 7y ago

Those do help. Have you given thought to whether these are the absolute baseline...or actually the consequences of practices more fundamental?

philwelch 7y ago

Most professional athletes aren’t obsessive just because they have a weirdly specific passion for their sport. They’re obsessive because they’re pathologically competitive. There’s stories about eg Michael Jordan buying a ping pong table and obsessively practicing at ping pong because he had a teammate who beat him at ping pong once and he wasn’t able to let it go until he beat the guy in a rematch. Obsession can come from many sources.