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Browsers shouldn't be the entity deciding on address resolution, a domain system bound only to the web/httpx would be a huge leap backwards. This should be up t

Browsers shouldn't be the entity deciding on address resolution, a domain system bound only to the web/httpx would be a huge leap backwards. This should be up to the os and whatever names resolution the os provides should be happily accepted by any network program, be it a browser, email client, ssh, irc or something completely different.

byuu 7y ago
Unfortunately, with at least Chrome and Firefox moving to DNS-over-HTTPS, they are the entities deciding on address resolution for 99% of average-user requests. I would agree with you in principle however, in which case there's an even more impossible goal: get Microsoft, Apple, Google, and every Linux/BSD distro to agree to a new OS-level alternate domain name resolver that functions out of the box. And also stop Google and Mozilla from rolling out browser-level DoH.
- justinclift 7y ago
  Wonder if this means Cloudflare - and/or the other termination points for DNS-over-HTTPS - could be an interesting place to start adding an alternative DNS resolution system? Then it wouldn't need to be done by any browsers... if the DNS-over-HTTPS end point provider does the additional name resolution, it should "just work".
  - syshum 7y ago
    Yes because that is what the internet needs, to have CloudFlare in control over more and more of it
  - mygo 7y ago
    We’re here because a private company has taken over .ORG I see what you’re saying in theory, but it can’t be cloudflare or a private company or else it’s more of the same.
    - justinclift 7y ago
      If it's done as a coalition of the places which provide DNS-over-HTTPS, it might work. :)
      - mygo 7y ago
        Negative. Private equity has billions to pay with. Everyone has a price.
- int_19h 7y ago
  The OSes appear to be signing up for DoH as well.
jdnenej 7y ago
Browsers are the only ones actually willing to allow any change. If we wait for OSs to change nothing will ever happen. If it works well in browsers first then the OS will pick it up.
- Tharkun 7y ago
  That's because there's no need for change. DNS works pretty well. There are various options to secure DNS, so that part of the DoH is also moot. Browsers should respect the OS instead of trying to circumvent it. Lastly, DNS is properly decentralized out of the box. I don't get that some people who argue for a decentralized internet also argue for DoH.
  - jdnenej 7y ago
    Similar to how email works and has various options to secure it but the reality is no end users were benefiting from it. How many OSs have enabled by default encrypted DNS? Browsers should primarily focus on providing the most secure and private browsing experience. DNS is also not decentralized. It's centralised on ICANN and whatever company owns your TLD which is why this thread is here.
denkmoon 7y ago
> Browsers shouldn't be the entity deciding on address resolution Someone tell the guys pushing DNS over HTTPS that.
throw0101a 7y ago
> Browsers shouldn't be the entity deciding on address resolution ... See DNS Wars, Episode 6: "Resolverless DNS": * https://blog.apnic.net/2019/11/04/dns-wars/ https://blog.apnic.net/2019/11/04/dns-wars/ * https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/Resolverless-dns https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/Resolverless-dns ('Amusingly' I cannot view the mailman page because Cloudflare DDoS protection is blocking me. The same CF that is doing DoH for Mozilla.)

byuu 7y ago

Unfortunately, with at least Chrome and Firefox moving to DNS-over-HTTPS, they are the entities deciding on address resolution for 99% of average-user requests. I would agree with you in principle however, in which case there's an even more impossible goal: get Microsoft, Apple, Google, and every Linux/BSD distro to agree to a new OS-level alternate domain name resolver that functions out of the box. And also stop Google and Mozilla from rolling out browser-level DoH.

justinclift 7y ago
Wonder if this means Cloudflare - and/or the other termination points for DNS-over-HTTPS - could be an interesting place to start adding an alternative DNS resolution system? Then it wouldn't need to be done by any browsers... if the DNS-over-HTTPS end point provider does the additional name resolution, it should "just work".
- syshum 7y ago
  Yes because that is what the internet needs, to have CloudFlare in control over more and more of it
- mygo 7y ago
  We’re here because a private company has taken over .ORG I see what you’re saying in theory, but it can’t be cloudflare or a private company or else it’s more of the same.
  - justinclift 7y ago
    If it's done as a coalition of the places which provide DNS-over-HTTPS, it might work. :)
    - mygo 7y ago
      Negative. Private equity has billions to pay with. Everyone has a price.
int_19h 7y ago
The OSes appear to be signing up for DoH as well.

jdnenej 7y ago

Browsers are the only ones actually willing to allow any change. If we wait for OSs to change nothing will ever happen. If it works well in browsers first then the OS will pick it up.

Tharkun 7y ago
That's because there's no need for change. DNS works pretty well. There are various options to secure DNS, so that part of the DoH is also moot. Browsers should respect the OS instead of trying to circumvent it. Lastly, DNS is properly decentralized out of the box. I don't get that some people who argue for a decentralized internet also argue for DoH.
- jdnenej 7y ago
  Similar to how email works and has various options to secure it but the reality is no end users were benefiting from it. How many OSs have enabled by default encrypted DNS? Browsers should primarily focus on providing the most secure and private browsing experience. DNS is also not decentralized. It's centralised on ICANN and whatever company owns your TLD which is why this thread is here.

denkmoon 7y ago

> Browsers shouldn't be the entity deciding on address resolution Someone tell the guys pushing DNS over HTTPS that.

throw0101a 7y ago

> Browsers shouldn't be the entity deciding on address resolution ... See DNS Wars, Episode 6: "Resolverless DNS": * https://blog.apnic.net/2019/11/04/dns-wars/ https://blog.apnic.net/2019/11/04/dns-wars/ * https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/Resolverless-dns https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/Resolverless-dns ('Amusingly' I cannot view the mailman page because Cloudflare DDoS protection is blocking me. The same CF that is doing DoH for Mozilla.)