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> people seem to want to have their own batteries rather than using loaner ones that have possibly been abused by others I think that's a rational desire when

> people seem to want to have their own batteries rather than using loaner ones that have possibly been abused by others I think that's a rational desire when you've bought the battery with your vehicle. If there were an option to have the vehicle delivered sans battery then enter into a swap program of your choosing which provided the battery that you never actually owned (why would you want to, really, it's _the_ expensive wear component most likely to be meaningfully obsoleted repeatedly), then people would probably feel very differently about it.

ianai 7y ago
Mark my words. If this attempt at electrifying vehicles fails the non-serviceable batteries will be in the short list of reasons. There is no one giving an irrefutable reason they can’t be supported. Other than the manufacturers want an artificial push to replace vehicles like smartphones. Edit-Ok found a slightly convincing argument. The battery pack in a Tesla 3 weighs 1000lbs. It’d require a swap station in order to support removing them. I still say it’s doable. It has to be supported if we want to avert catastrophic climate change. This is a breakthrough that batteries need to get.
- foobarian 7y ago
  Tesla had a demo for a battery pack replacement station [1, 2013], but I guess it never went anywhere. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY
  - ianai 7y ago
    The crazy thing is the economic trade off here. Those batteries are around half the cost of the car. So splitting the two would make the car that much cheaper while the battery could be like a lease program.
    - foobarian 7y ago
      This would really get me to switch to one - just paying for the car sans battery, and having battery swap stations. Sadly the available charging infrastructure is a nonstarter for me. I don't have a big house or a garage so even charging off of 120v plugs does not work.
      - ianai 7y ago
        Yes, they’re leaving the vast majority of apartment occupants (like myself) and probably other types of residencies in the cold. It’s not that oil doesn’t have a similar problem. A tank of gas easily weighs over 100lbs (per a quick search). It just benefits from being a liquid.
        natch 7y ago
        See my comment history re: apartments. It may be possible, depending where you live.
      - natch 7y ago
        We make it work with two Teslas living in an apartment with no chargers on site. Need either charging at work or a close Supercharger or nearby fast public chargers to make it work. Preferably at least two out of those three.
natch 7y ago
In that case see point two, about the battery being part of the structure of the car. Could maybe pull it off with a different design, like maybe the Tesla Cybertruck exoskeleton could work with this scheme? Would be cool if it could work and if swaps were fast like in that one Tesla demo that never came to market.

ianai 7y ago

Mark my words. If this attempt at electrifying vehicles fails the non-serviceable batteries will be in the short list of reasons. There is no one giving an irrefutable reason they can’t be supported. Other than the manufacturers want an artificial push to replace vehicles like smartphones. Edit-Ok found a slightly convincing argument. The battery pack in a Tesla 3 weighs 1000lbs. It’d require a swap station in order to support removing them. I still say it’s doable. It has to be supported if we want to avert catastrophic climate change. This is a breakthrough that batteries need to get.

foobarian 7y ago
Tesla had a demo for a battery pack replacement station [1, 2013], but I guess it never went anywhere. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY
- ianai 7y ago
  The crazy thing is the economic trade off here. Those batteries are around half the cost of the car. So splitting the two would make the car that much cheaper while the battery could be like a lease program.
  - foobarian 7y ago
    This would really get me to switch to one - just paying for the car sans battery, and having battery swap stations. Sadly the available charging infrastructure is a nonstarter for me. I don't have a big house or a garage so even charging off of 120v plugs does not work.
    - ianai 7y ago
      Yes, they’re leaving the vast majority of apartment occupants (like myself) and probably other types of residencies in the cold. It’s not that oil doesn’t have a similar problem. A tank of gas easily weighs over 100lbs (per a quick search). It just benefits from being a liquid.
      - natch 7y ago
        See my comment history re: apartments. It may be possible, depending where you live.
    - natch 7y ago
      We make it work with two Teslas living in an apartment with no chargers on site. Need either charging at work or a close Supercharger or nearby fast public chargers to make it work. Preferably at least two out of those three.

natch 7y ago

In that case see point two, about the battery being part of the structure of the car. Could maybe pull it off with a different design, like maybe the Tesla Cybertruck exoskeleton could work with this scheme? Would be cool if it could work and if swaps were fast like in that one Tesla demo that never came to market.