3 ms·

Can a post office generally open random packages under the guise of intercepting drugs? I would very much hope not.

by crispyporkbites 7y ago

riskneutral 7y ago
Yes
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
buttcoinslol 7y ago
It depends. First class mail needs probable cause and a warrant since it may be private correspondence [0] [0] https://www.uspis.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/USPIS-FAQs.pdf https://www.uspis.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/USPIS-FAQs....
iudqnolq 7y ago
In general, first class letters that don't cross a national border and don't look like they contain something other than letter are safe from warrentless interception. Certainly packages have no such protections. FISA (post 9/11 "national security" authorizing legislation) adds some exceptions > Third, provisions in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (“FISA”), as amended, 50 U.S.C. § 1801 et seq., specifically authorize the Attorney General to conduct physical searches of mall without prior judicial authorization in certain circumstances. Section 304(e) of FISA, 50 U.S.C. § 1824(e), provides that the Attorney General, under certain circumstances, may approve the execution of an emergency physical search of property, including property that “is in transit to or from an agent of a foreign power or a foreign power,” id. § 1824(a)(3)(B), so long as the Attorney General subsequently obtains an order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizing the search... https://www.rstreet.org/2014/11/19/yes-the-government-can-open-your-mail-without-a-warrant/ https://www.rstreet.org/2014/11/19/yes-the-government-can-op...
- ksaj 7y ago
  A lot of packages I receive from overseas are stamped with words to the effect of "Package may be opened and inspected" which is probably directly related to this clause, and also negating the need to get permission from the foreign courts. I'm guessing that is to speed things up in case they do want to inspect it. Likewise, I've received one package that was opened and inspected. It came in a clear plastic bag along with a very short note stating that it had been inspected in accordance to <whatever laws they were>. Senders probably don't usually stamp that on illegal shipments, and the post surely doesn't drop in a polite notification if they discover something illegal in there.
  - iudqnolq 7y ago
    The Constitution in general protects much less when the borders are involved. I meant to say that the US government can open any mail it feels like if that mail isn't a first class letter, without needing permission from a judge. Additionally, even first class letters aren't protected if they cross the border; the government can inspect anything it feels like that crosses a border without needing permission from any judge. Unless someone forged the notice (unlikely, as you point out) some government opened it (it could also have been the government of the sender or any transit country). All those notices are the government voluntarily letting you know because someone in the government thought it would be better; if the FBI wanted to open a package because they vaguely suspected terrorism they could do it without needing to stamp the package or give any notice if they wanted.
Godel_unicode 7y ago
Randomly? No. If there is suspicion (read: probable cause)? Absolutely. https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/packages-suspected-containing-marijuana https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/packages-suspected-containi...

Can a post office generally open random packages under the guise of intercepting drugs? I would very much hope not.

riskneutral 7y ago

Yes

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

buttcoinslol 7y ago

It depends. First class mail needs probable cause and a warrant since it may be private correspondence [0] [0] https://www.uspis.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/USPIS-FAQs.pdf https://www.uspis.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/USPIS-FAQs....

iudqnolq 7y ago

In general, first class letters that don't cross a national border and don't look like they contain something other than letter are safe from warrentless interception. Certainly packages have no such protections. FISA (post 9/11 "national security" authorizing legislation) adds some exceptions > Third, provisions in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (“FISA”), as amended, 50 U.S.C. § 1801 et seq., specifically authorize the Attorney General to conduct physical searches of mall without prior judicial authorization in certain circumstances. Section 304(e) of FISA, 50 U.S.C. § 1824(e), provides that the Attorney General, under certain circumstances, may approve the execution of an emergency physical search of property, including property that “is in transit to or from an agent of a foreign power or a foreign power,” id. § 1824(a)(3)(B), so long as the Attorney General subsequently obtains an order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizing the search... https://www.rstreet.org/2014/11/19/yes-the-government-can-open-your-mail-without-a-warrant/ https://www.rstreet.org/2014/11/19/yes-the-government-can-op...

ksaj 7y ago
A lot of packages I receive from overseas are stamped with words to the effect of "Package may be opened and inspected" which is probably directly related to this clause, and also negating the need to get permission from the foreign courts. I'm guessing that is to speed things up in case they do want to inspect it. Likewise, I've received one package that was opened and inspected. It came in a clear plastic bag along with a very short note stating that it had been inspected in accordance to <whatever laws they were>. Senders probably don't usually stamp that on illegal shipments, and the post surely doesn't drop in a polite notification if they discover something illegal in there.
- iudqnolq 7y ago
  The Constitution in general protects much less when the borders are involved. I meant to say that the US government can open any mail it feels like if that mail isn't a first class letter, without needing permission from a judge. Additionally, even first class letters aren't protected if they cross the border; the government can inspect anything it feels like that crosses a border without needing permission from any judge. Unless someone forged the notice (unlikely, as you point out) some government opened it (it could also have been the government of the sender or any transit country). All those notices are the government voluntarily letting you know because someone in the government thought it would be better; if the FBI wanted to open a package because they vaguely suspected terrorism they could do it without needing to stamp the package or give any notice if they wanted.

Godel_unicode 7y ago

Randomly? No. If there is suspicion (read: probable cause)? Absolutely. https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/packages-suspected-containing-marijuana https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/packages-suspected-containi...