4 ms·

Counterpoint: There is also a higher chance of Post Offices losing your package, routing it to an incorrect address, or other holiday errors that would increas

Counterpoint: There is also a higher chance of Post Offices losing your package, routing it to an incorrect address, or other holiday errors that would increase your risk. And just from the minimal Dark Web browsing I've done, it seems like post offices are really only searching packages when they already have some reason to be suspicious, like contact from law enforcement. Truly random checks seem like an extremely rare occurrence.

ne0flex 7y ago
A friend of mine in Portland, Oregon once told me that a package turned up at his house. He noticed that the package wasn't addressed to him, but instead the return address on the package was his address. After taking the package inside, someone opened it and found that it was full of vacuum-sealed marijuana. A couple days later when he returned from work a post it note was left on his front door that said something along the lines of 'I think the post office got my address wrong and you may have received it, please call me.' He took the package and the note to the police. When they tried calling the number they got a message saying that number was out of service.
- oliv__ 7y ago
  That's really not cool. For a few ounces of grass, come onnn
  - trehalose 7y ago
    He didn't go to the cops over a few ounces of grass. He went to the cops over an anonymous stranger framing him for multiple federal felonies! I strongly believe that nobody should be imprisoned for cannabis, but I still might very well go to the authorities if a stranger practically tried to get me imprisoned for theirs.
    - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
      They probably just picked a random return address, it's not as if they are going to put their own address on the packet.
      - trehalose 7y ago
        Well sure, but it's not as if framing a random stranger for multiple federal felonies is any better than framing a non-random stranger for them.
        tonyedgecombe 7y ago
        Yes, but "framing a stranger" implies some intent.
- thejigisup 7y ago
  wow he actually snitched on the guy to the cops over weed? what a loser.
crispyporkbites 7y ago
Can a post office generally open random packages under the guise of intercepting drugs? I would very much hope not.
- riskneutral 7y ago
  Yes
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- buttcoinslol 7y ago
  It depends. First class mail needs probable cause and a warrant since it may be private correspondence [0] [0] https://www.uspis.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/USPIS-FAQs.pdf https://www.uspis.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/USPIS-FAQs....
- iudqnolq 7y ago
  In general, first class letters that don't cross a national border and don't look like they contain something other than letter are safe from warrentless interception. Certainly packages have no such protections. FISA (post 9/11 "national security" authorizing legislation) adds some exceptions > Third, provisions in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (“FISA”), as amended, 50 U.S.C. § 1801 et seq., specifically authorize the Attorney General to conduct physical searches of mall without prior judicial authorization in certain circumstances. Section 304(e) of FISA, 50 U.S.C. § 1824(e), provides that the Attorney General, under certain circumstances, may approve the execution of an emergency physical search of property, including property that “is in transit to or from an agent of a foreign power or a foreign power,” id. § 1824(a)(3)(B), so long as the Attorney General subsequently obtains an order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizing the search... https://www.rstreet.org/2014/11/19/yes-the-government-can-open-your-mail-without-a-warrant/ https://www.rstreet.org/2014/11/19/yes-the-government-can-op...
  - ksaj 7y ago
    A lot of packages I receive from overseas are stamped with words to the effect of "Package may be opened and inspected" which is probably directly related to this clause, and also negating the need to get permission from the foreign courts. I'm guessing that is to speed things up in case they do want to inspect it. Likewise, I've received one package that was opened and inspected. It came in a clear plastic bag along with a very short note stating that it had been inspected in accordance to <whatever laws they were>. Senders probably don't usually stamp that on illegal shipments, and the post surely doesn't drop in a polite notification if they discover something illegal in there.
proverbialbunny 7y ago
>it seems like post offices are really only searching packages when they already have some reason to be suspicious This is not the case. It's a very heavy ymmv sort of situation. Eg, a post office I lived close to would scan 1 in 10 packages of mail through an xray, including random letters. They had a system that would randomly select from the line. However, when it comes to USPS a warrent needs to be had to open the letter. Because of this if mail is caught with drugs in it, or suspected, from an x-ray, the mail suddenly gets "lost", because it's cheaper and easier than filing warrants all day. Especially given that the DEA cares about the seller far more than the buyer. If the package is large, but not like massively large, they might go out of their way to file a warrant and give a "love letter", where instead of the mail being delivered, instead a letter is delivered that says, "We know what you're up to. Knock it off." (paragraphrasing ofc) Because they want the seller, and because anyone can frame anyone else by mailing them drugs anonymously, I've not heard of a case where someone who has receiving drugs by mail who has gotten arrested, with two exceptions: 1) Massively large packages, like multiple huge boxes or barrels worth. 2) I have seen a falling out where someones friend reported them for buying drugs online, and an arrest was carried out then, but due to the potential for abuse, the DEA leaves the buyers alone.

ne0flex 7y ago

A friend of mine in Portland, Oregon once told me that a package turned up at his house. He noticed that the package wasn't addressed to him, but instead the return address on the package was his address. After taking the package inside, someone opened it and found that it was full of vacuum-sealed marijuana. A couple days later when he returned from work a post it note was left on his front door that said something along the lines of 'I think the post office got my address wrong and you may have received it, please call me.' He took the package and the note to the police. When they tried calling the number they got a message saying that number was out of service.

oliv__ 7y ago
That's really not cool. For a few ounces of grass, come onnn
- trehalose 7y ago
  He didn't go to the cops over a few ounces of grass. He went to the cops over an anonymous stranger framing him for multiple federal felonies! I strongly believe that nobody should be imprisoned for cannabis, but I still might very well go to the authorities if a stranger practically tried to get me imprisoned for theirs.
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    They probably just picked a random return address, it's not as if they are going to put their own address on the packet.
    - trehalose 7y ago
      Well sure, but it's not as if framing a random stranger for multiple federal felonies is any better than framing a non-random stranger for them.
      - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
        Yes, but "framing a stranger" implies some intent.
thejigisup 7y ago
wow he actually snitched on the guy to the cops over weed? what a loser.

crispyporkbites 7y ago

Can a post office generally open random packages under the guise of intercepting drugs? I would very much hope not.

riskneutral 7y ago
Yes
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
buttcoinslol 7y ago
It depends. First class mail needs probable cause and a warrant since it may be private correspondence [0] [0] https://www.uspis.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/USPIS-FAQs.pdf https://www.uspis.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/USPIS-FAQs....
iudqnolq 7y ago
In general, first class letters that don't cross a national border and don't look like they contain something other than letter are safe from warrentless interception. Certainly packages have no such protections. FISA (post 9/11 "national security" authorizing legislation) adds some exceptions > Third, provisions in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (“FISA”), as amended, 50 U.S.C. § 1801 et seq., specifically authorize the Attorney General to conduct physical searches of mall without prior judicial authorization in certain circumstances. Section 304(e) of FISA, 50 U.S.C. § 1824(e), provides that the Attorney General, under certain circumstances, may approve the execution of an emergency physical search of property, including property that “is in transit to or from an agent of a foreign power or a foreign power,” id. § 1824(a)(3)(B), so long as the Attorney General subsequently obtains an order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizing the search... https://www.rstreet.org/2014/11/19/yes-the-government-can-open-your-mail-without-a-warrant/ https://www.rstreet.org/2014/11/19/yes-the-government-can-op...
- ksaj 7y ago
  A lot of packages I receive from overseas are stamped with words to the effect of "Package may be opened and inspected" which is probably directly related to this clause, and also negating the need to get permission from the foreign courts. I'm guessing that is to speed things up in case they do want to inspect it. Likewise, I've received one package that was opened and inspected. It came in a clear plastic bag along with a very short note stating that it had been inspected in accordance to <whatever laws they were>. Senders probably don't usually stamp that on illegal shipments, and the post surely doesn't drop in a polite notification if they discover something illegal in there.

proverbialbunny 7y ago

>it seems like post offices are really only searching packages when they already have some reason to be suspicious This is not the case. It's a very heavy ymmv sort of situation. Eg, a post office I lived close to would scan 1 in 10 packages of mail through an xray, including random letters. They had a system that would randomly select from the line. However, when it comes to USPS a warrent needs to be had to open the letter. Because of this if mail is caught with drugs in it, or suspected, from an x-ray, the mail suddenly gets "lost", because it's cheaper and easier than filing warrants all day. Especially given that the DEA cares about the seller far more than the buyer. If the package is large, but not like massively large, they might go out of their way to file a warrant and give a "love letter", where instead of the mail being delivered, instead a letter is delivered that says, "We know what you're up to. Knock it off." (paragraphrasing ofc) Because they want the seller, and because anyone can frame anyone else by mailing them drugs anonymously, I've not heard of a case where someone who has receiving drugs by mail who has gotten arrested, with two exceptions: 1) Massively large packages, like multiple huge boxes or barrels worth. 2) I have seen a falling out where someones friend reported them for buying drugs online, and an arrest was carried out then, but due to the potential for abuse, the DEA leaves the buyers alone.