6 ms·

In my experience it is definitely a problem that comes up a lot introducing Windows 10 to people who have never used a computer before. They don't know what is

In my experience it is definitely a problem that comes up a lot introducing Windows 10 to people who have never used a computer before. They don't know what is running and what isn't, they don't know which window is focused if there are several on screen at once, they are afraid to poke around in the start menu in a way they weren't when it was simpler and clearer, and in general don't understand the meanings of icons and menus that used to be properly labeled. Windows 95 was a lot more clear and discoverable for someone who had never used a graphical computer.

dspillett 7y ago
> ... people who have never used a computer before. They don't know which window is focused if there are several on screen at once This isn't just a problem for beginners: I'm old hat and I sometimes can't tell what Windows 10 has given focus to at times when I have several things on the go, especially over two or more screens where windows overlapping isn't the obvious go-to clue. The distinction between focused and not is sometimes so close to non-existent it might as well be completely non-existent (like the titlebar text+icons being a slightly different shade of grey), and it varies from app to app (even amongst Microsoft's output) so there is not one set visual cue to follow. It definitely used to be better than this, including in Windows land. When I get around to it (so probably never!) I intend to write a little tool that scans for the top-most window and draws a bright border around/over it somehow. I know this is possible (and probably not difficult) as I did some similar hacky window decorating back in the Win2K days[‡], but I've been almost entirely a database+infrastructure fellow for more than a decade and my desktop dev knowledge has rotted terribly. [†] an always-on-top window positioned so it is a line across the top of the focused window would do, four such objects, one for each side, would be the easy hacky way to achieve a border, a single drawing surface with transparency and mouse click-through would be cleaner but with my current skillset more faf working out the relevant API jiggery-pokery or finding a library that wraps that nicely already [‡] Using Delphi. Anyone else remember that? Does it still exist in a similar form?
- PsylentKnight 7y ago
  In Settings > Colors you can choose an accent color and turn on the "Title bars and windows borders" option - I think that would give you exactly what you want.
  - OkGoDoIt 7y ago
    I have found this option to be surprisingly inconsistent, both with built-in windows apps and with third-party apps. Many UWP apps don’t honor this at all, in addition to many electron apps.
  - dspillett 7y ago
    Not everything does anything useful with that setting or even respects it at all, not even everything from MS, not even everything common from MS. It does cover a fair few things, but not enough to calm my irritation!
- hermitdev 7y ago
  Delphi is still around. A former coworker at my previous job (left this Jan) used it from time to time to make some quick little utilities. Not sure how well it's aged as I've never used it myself.
- Grognak 7y ago
  Delphi is still around in spirit through an IDE named Lazarus. https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ https://www.lazarus-ide.org/
sedatk 7y ago
> They don't know what is running and what isn't And they shouldn't. That's the idea Windows 10 tries to convey. Windows Store apps already stay in the background even after you close them. You shouldn't care which app is running or not. Clicking its icon would bring it up and that's the only thing the user needs to know. iOS and Android already work that way.
- Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
  The difference is that iOS and Android will kill apps as it sees fit. People come to expect that and know that reopening their reddit reader after a few hours, it might not be at the same state they left it. On a desktop, this is different. You have to explicitly close programs. Because of this, it becomes important to know what's running and what isn't.
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    > The difference is that iOS and Android will kill apps as it sees fit. Only because iOS and Android are wasting RAM (the former to a lesser extent, but iOS devices also have less RAM to begin with!) and running with zero swap space. (And the latter point in turn is due to the abysmal, bottom-of-the-barrel quality of phone eMMC storage.) This is not progress, it's just the OOM reaper being overactive for lack of a better option.
    - bsder 7y ago
      > and running with zero swap space. (And the latter point in turn is due to the abysmal, bottom-of-the-barrel quality of phone eMMC storage.) This is not progress, it's just the OOM reaper being overactive for lack of a better option. And all this grief could be avoided by Linux actually allocating memory when its supposed to as opposed to just saying "Sure!" and then sometime later killing completely random programs when someone actually attempts to use memory they requested.
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    I wish I had more control over the mobile experience though. For example, my run-tracker apps will get closed and stop tracking me if I open too many apps during my run while leaving Spotify, Youtube, and my podcast apps open. I'd like to be able to somehow pin the run-tracker as top priority. Sucks to realize after a run or bike ride that it stopped recording 20min into it.
deepspace 7y ago
> people who have never used a computer before To be fair, back in 1995 the number of people who had never used a computer before was huge, so it made sense for companies like Microsoft to cater to their needs. Today though, the fraction of people who truly have no computer experience must be utterly minuscule, so I can see that MS does not see the beginner experience as a priority any more.
- glandium 7y ago
  Counterpoint: There was a headline recently in Japan about the fact that (IIRC) 40% of "kids" between 10 and 20 who do have a computer at home never used a computer. All they know is smartphones, Instagram, and Tiktok. Maybe Twitter. Some may be old enough to have used Facebook.

dspillett 7y ago

> ... people who have never used a computer before. They don't know which window is focused if there are several on screen at once This isn't just a problem for beginners: I'm old hat and I sometimes can't tell what Windows 10 has given focus to at times when I have several things on the go, especially over two or more screens where windows overlapping isn't the obvious go-to clue. The distinction between focused and not is sometimes so close to non-existent it might as well be completely non-existent (like the titlebar text+icons being a slightly different shade of grey), and it varies from app to app (even amongst Microsoft's output) so there is not one set visual cue to follow. It definitely used to be better than this, including in Windows land. When I get around to it (so probably never!) I intend to write a little tool that scans for the top-most window and draws a bright border around/over it somehow. I know this is possible (and probably not difficult) as I did some similar hacky window decorating back in the Win2K days[‡], but I've been almost entirely a database+infrastructure fellow for more than a decade and my desktop dev knowledge has rotted terribly. [†] an always-on-top window positioned so it is a line across the top of the focused window would do, four such objects, one for each side, would be the easy hacky way to achieve a border, a single drawing surface with transparency and mouse click-through would be cleaner but with my current skillset more faf working out the relevant API jiggery-pokery or finding a library that wraps that nicely already [‡] Using Delphi. Anyone else remember that? Does it still exist in a similar form?

PsylentKnight 7y ago
In Settings > Colors you can choose an accent color and turn on the "Title bars and windows borders" option - I think that would give you exactly what you want.
- OkGoDoIt 7y ago
  I have found this option to be surprisingly inconsistent, both with built-in windows apps and with third-party apps. Many UWP apps don’t honor this at all, in addition to many electron apps.
- dspillett 7y ago
  Not everything does anything useful with that setting or even respects it at all, not even everything from MS, not even everything common from MS. It does cover a fair few things, but not enough to calm my irritation!
hermitdev 7y ago
Delphi is still around. A former coworker at my previous job (left this Jan) used it from time to time to make some quick little utilities. Not sure how well it's aged as I've never used it myself.
Grognak 7y ago
Delphi is still around in spirit through an IDE named Lazarus. https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ https://www.lazarus-ide.org/

sedatk 7y ago

> They don't know what is running and what isn't And they shouldn't. That's the idea Windows 10 tries to convey. Windows Store apps already stay in the background even after you close them. You shouldn't care which app is running or not. Clicking its icon would bring it up and that's the only thing the user needs to know. iOS and Android already work that way.

Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
The difference is that iOS and Android will kill apps as it sees fit. People come to expect that and know that reopening their reddit reader after a few hours, it might not be at the same state they left it. On a desktop, this is different. You have to explicitly close programs. Because of this, it becomes important to know what's running and what isn't.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  > The difference is that iOS and Android will kill apps as it sees fit. Only because iOS and Android are wasting RAM (the former to a lesser extent, but iOS devices also have less RAM to begin with!) and running with zero swap space. (And the latter point in turn is due to the abysmal, bottom-of-the-barrel quality of phone eMMC storage.) This is not progress, it's just the OOM reaper being overactive for lack of a better option.
  - bsder 7y ago
    > and running with zero swap space. (And the latter point in turn is due to the abysmal, bottom-of-the-barrel quality of phone eMMC storage.) This is not progress, it's just the OOM reaper being overactive for lack of a better option. And all this grief could be avoided by Linux actually allocating memory when its supposed to as opposed to just saying "Sure!" and then sometime later killing completely random programs when someone actually attempts to use memory they requested.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  I wish I had more control over the mobile experience though. For example, my run-tracker apps will get closed and stop tracking me if I open too many apps during my run while leaving Spotify, Youtube, and my podcast apps open. I'd like to be able to somehow pin the run-tracker as top priority. Sucks to realize after a run or bike ride that it stopped recording 20min into it.

deepspace 7y ago

> people who have never used a computer before To be fair, back in 1995 the number of people who had never used a computer before was huge, so it made sense for companies like Microsoft to cater to their needs. Today though, the fraction of people who truly have no computer experience must be utterly minuscule, so I can see that MS does not see the beginner experience as a priority any more.

glandium 7y ago
Counterpoint: There was a headline recently in Japan about the fact that (IIRC) 40% of "kids" between 10 and 20 who do have a computer at home never used a computer. All they know is smartphones, Instagram, and Tiktok. Maybe Twitter. Some may be old enough to have used Facebook.