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I find it amusing that Congress has suddenly become so interested in the dangers of deep fakes. When they started going on and on about the dangers I thought “w

I find it amusing that Congress has suddenly become so interested in the dangers of deep fakes. When they started going on and on about the dangers I thought “why is this dude so worried?”. Then of course the Epstein stuff becomes news[1] months later and the cynical part of me can’t help but think they’re looking for a defense if they ever partied at his island or ranch. 1. https://nypost.com/2019/11/18/jeffrey-epstein-accuser-claims-he-hid-pinhole-cameras-to-monitor-private-moments/ https://nypost.com/2019/11/18/jeffrey-epstein-accuser-claims...

ISL 7y ago
Deepfakes are readily understandable as a problem for politicians. Politicians are experts in public messaging; this technology has the ability to alter previously-immutable messages.
- jobigoud 7y ago
  I think the bigger problem is it provides deniability and removes accountability. The "I never said that" kind.
  - Reason077 7y ago
    Could blockchain give us a secure audit trail for digital video clips?
    - gsich 7y ago
      "simple" would suffice.
    - zaphod420 7y ago
      kind of... you can create a hash of the video, and store the hash on a blockchain. Then when viewing the video in the future, you can check it's hash and compare it to the one stored on chain to be sure the video wasn't tampered with.
      - bowmessage 7y ago
        But then you need to establish that the hash was posted on the chain by a trusted source, too.
        bduerst 7y ago
        And ensure that they weren't hacked, etc. Then you need another immutable blockchain to keep track of the bad posts on the first immutable blockchain.
    - michaelt 7y ago
      The blockchain could provide a timestamp, but it's hard to see how that would help. Every type of video authentication system I've ever heard proposed can be defeated by simply pointing a 'trusted' video camera at a screen playing a fake video.
      - TomMarius 7y ago
        In real world you could have an event that happened under five different, unaffiliated cameras. If all of these match up, that seems to be something a judge should consider.
      - cwkoss 7y ago
        I was chatting with someone about making deep-fake-resistant video. An interesting solution that came up was making artifacts that would be hard to simulate: ex. surround the speaker is a swirling vortex of confetti, where words have a minimal but detectable effects on the air currents. Video could be 'authenticated' by post facto tracking of particles to validate both continuity and plausible velocity deltas based on generated model of air currents. It wouldn't eliminate the possibility of deepfakes, but would drastically increase cost of production. Similarly, I predict that cameras will increase in resolution past the point of utility for human vision: tetrapixel camera video would be extremely expensive to produce without leaving tiny artifacts.
      - tomarr 7y ago
        I suppose you could have 'trusted devices' where upon taking pictures/videos a hash of the file is committed to blockchain. Although a privacy nightmare. This obviously wouldn't solve the 'no fake videos' problem but would least mean 'this video isn't fake' for a select subset. There could be tiers of information in the future where this audited media is weighted higher.
        xiphias2 7y ago
        Commiting a timestamping hash is not a privacy nightmare, as you don’t need to reveal the evidence until you need to use it for proving what happened.
    - CPLX 7y ago
      Of course not. There’s no plausible mechanism by which it could.
    - DonHopkins 7y ago
      Well blockchain can solve any problem, and everyone working with it is totally reputable and competent, so what could possibly go wrong?
      - mikevp 7y ago
        cf. XKCD -- "Bury it in the desert. Wear gloves."
- noelsusman 7y ago
  We've had the ability to make convincing fake videos for a long time. There are whole industries devoted to the task.
  - TomMarius 7y ago
    Yeah but it definitely never was this accessible.
- bduerst 7y ago
  Why are deepfakes now a huge problem, or any worse than photoshop? This technology has existed for decades.
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    Video used to be the holy grail for 'that's real'. There's a realpolitik side to some american politics where if the traditional international order gets reshuffled they'd be happy to prove international misbehaviour with video footage and then use that as evidence for escalation. Also in the justice system video footage is seen as good as gold. The credibility of still footage has dropped before. I don't know where that leaves us for authentic media...
  - 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
    Also, don’t courts have pretty strict chain of custody rules for anything submitted as “evidence”?
- TearsInTheRain 7y ago
  Is there any benefit to deepfake technology besides maybe entertainment?
ouid 7y ago
Of all the places where you could find "epstein news" you choose to link the New York Post.
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  I would honestly love to link to a trusted MSM report, but these outlets have been burying Epstein stories[1]. It's awful. 1. https://www.newsweek.com/abc-jeffrey-epstein-story-amy-robach-prince-andrew-1469893 https://www.newsweek.com/abc-jeffrey-epstein-story-amy-robac...
  - deusofnull 7y ago
    Miami herald for the big story last spring that lead to a lot of this coming back up.
  - ouid 7y ago
    I'm not criticizing the New York Post for being too indie. I'm criticizing them for being profoundly untrustworthy.
    - mAEStro-paNDa 7y ago
      Can you provide examples?
      - bduerst 7y ago
        They have a string of controversies like most news organizations, but I think they may be referring to the fact it is owned by News Corp, which is run by Rupert Murdoch who is notorious for companies like Fox News.
  - noelsusman 7y ago
    The New York Post story you linked is just a write up of original reporting done by CBS. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeffrey-epstein-accuser-maria-farmer-says-his-house-under-constant-tv-surveillance/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeffrey-epstein-accuser-maria-f...
rriepe 7y ago
Same. The cynical part of me was looking to see if this project came out of MIT Media Lab (it didn't, just MIT)
- malvosenior 7y ago
  The President of MIT (Rafael Reif) while not directly implicated in fraternizing with Epstein did work to actively cover up the Joi Ito scandal and has essentially side-stepped all responsibility. There are still students protesting and calling for his resignation.

ISL 7y ago

Deepfakes are readily understandable as a problem for politicians. Politicians are experts in public messaging; this technology has the ability to alter previously-immutable messages.

jobigoud 7y ago
I think the bigger problem is it provides deniability and removes accountability. The "I never said that" kind.
- Reason077 7y ago
  Could blockchain give us a secure audit trail for digital video clips?
  - gsich 7y ago
    "simple" would suffice.
  - zaphod420 7y ago
    kind of... you can create a hash of the video, and store the hash on a blockchain. Then when viewing the video in the future, you can check it's hash and compare it to the one stored on chain to be sure the video wasn't tampered with.
    - bowmessage 7y ago
      But then you need to establish that the hash was posted on the chain by a trusted source, too.
      - bduerst 7y ago
        And ensure that they weren't hacked, etc. Then you need another immutable blockchain to keep track of the bad posts on the first immutable blockchain.
  - michaelt 7y ago
    The blockchain could provide a timestamp, but it's hard to see how that would help. Every type of video authentication system I've ever heard proposed can be defeated by simply pointing a 'trusted' video camera at a screen playing a fake video.
    - TomMarius 7y ago
      In real world you could have an event that happened under five different, unaffiliated cameras. If all of these match up, that seems to be something a judge should consider.
    - cwkoss 7y ago
      I was chatting with someone about making deep-fake-resistant video. An interesting solution that came up was making artifacts that would be hard to simulate: ex. surround the speaker is a swirling vortex of confetti, where words have a minimal but detectable effects on the air currents. Video could be 'authenticated' by post facto tracking of particles to validate both continuity and plausible velocity deltas based on generated model of air currents. It wouldn't eliminate the possibility of deepfakes, but would drastically increase cost of production. Similarly, I predict that cameras will increase in resolution past the point of utility for human vision: tetrapixel camera video would be extremely expensive to produce without leaving tiny artifacts.
    - tomarr 7y ago
      I suppose you could have 'trusted devices' where upon taking pictures/videos a hash of the file is committed to blockchain. Although a privacy nightmare. This obviously wouldn't solve the 'no fake videos' problem but would least mean 'this video isn't fake' for a select subset. There could be tiers of information in the future where this audited media is weighted higher.
      - xiphias2 7y ago
        Commiting a timestamping hash is not a privacy nightmare, as you don’t need to reveal the evidence until you need to use it for proving what happened.
  - CPLX 7y ago
    Of course not. There’s no plausible mechanism by which it could.
  - DonHopkins 7y ago
    Well blockchain can solve any problem, and everyone working with it is totally reputable and competent, so what could possibly go wrong?
    - mikevp 7y ago
      cf. XKCD -- "Bury it in the desert. Wear gloves."
noelsusman 7y ago
We've had the ability to make convincing fake videos for a long time. There are whole industries devoted to the task.
- TomMarius 7y ago
  Yeah but it definitely never was this accessible.
bduerst 7y ago
Why are deepfakes now a huge problem, or any worse than photoshop? This technology has existed for decades.
- friendlybus 7y ago
  Video used to be the holy grail for 'that's real'. There's a realpolitik side to some american politics where if the traditional international order gets reshuffled they'd be happy to prove international misbehaviour with video footage and then use that as evidence for escalation. Also in the justice system video footage is seen as good as gold. The credibility of still footage has dropped before. I don't know where that leaves us for authentic media...
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  Also, don’t courts have pretty strict chain of custody rules for anything submitted as “evidence”?
TearsInTheRain 7y ago
Is there any benefit to deepfake technology besides maybe entertainment?

ouid 7y ago

Of all the places where you could find "epstein news" you choose to link the New York Post.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
I would honestly love to link to a trusted MSM report, but these outlets have been burying Epstein stories[1]. It's awful. 1. https://www.newsweek.com/abc-jeffrey-epstein-story-amy-robach-prince-andrew-1469893 https://www.newsweek.com/abc-jeffrey-epstein-story-amy-robac...
- deusofnull 7y ago
  Miami herald for the big story last spring that lead to a lot of this coming back up.
- ouid 7y ago
  I'm not criticizing the New York Post for being too indie. I'm criticizing them for being profoundly untrustworthy.
  - mAEStro-paNDa 7y ago
    Can you provide examples?
    - bduerst 7y ago
      They have a string of controversies like most news organizations, but I think they may be referring to the fact it is owned by News Corp, which is run by Rupert Murdoch who is notorious for companies like Fox News.
- noelsusman 7y ago
  The New York Post story you linked is just a write up of original reporting done by CBS. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeffrey-epstein-accuser-maria-farmer-says-his-house-under-constant-tv-surveillance/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeffrey-epstein-accuser-maria-f...

rriepe 7y ago

Same. The cynical part of me was looking to see if this project came out of MIT Media Lab (it didn't, just MIT)

malvosenior 7y ago
The President of MIT (Rafael Reif) while not directly implicated in fraternizing with Epstein did work to actively cover up the Joi Ito scandal and has essentially side-stepped all responsibility. There are still students protesting and calling for his resignation.